John Watts Verge Lantern Clock 1680

Philip Snowden

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This is my J Watts Lantern Clock 1680 in a similar period oak panelled coffin case ..It is almost 9 ft tall and has had about 6 ins taken off the bottom .on the side can be seen a hole for the pendulum to swing when whatever clock that was in it was altered from verge to anchor.


2B1D84B8-A6D5-49DE-8BE9-4872BEA77E74.png 5DEC1A04-A4DE-4D98-9A78-4B7685EAC0CD.png 8FD2A95B-A522-469B-BBF5-9517BDA8A519.png 5F4B62F2-0502-424A-984E-4765A1106E47.jpeg B3210BE4-FE3B-41BF-BB50-61A96FE06405.jpeg
 

rstl99

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Essentially a lantern clock in a box, right? I find it an interesting transition in clockmaking in England. Was the main purpose to keep the dust off the lantern movement, or just to make it more of a piece of furniture, rather than an antique-looking metal clock hanging on a wall? I need to get back to my books to read about this evolution, again.
Thanks for sharing.
 
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bwclock

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Essentially a lantern clock in a box, right? I find it an interesting transition in clockmaking in England. Was the main purpose to keep the dust off the lantern movement, or just to make it more of a piece of furniture, rather than an antique-looking metal clock hanging on a wall? I need to get back to my books to read about this evolution, again.
Thanks for sharing.
Very nice, Phil. Is the purpose of what looks like a clothes pin to silence the bell(photo below for reference)? Lovely dial clock above the outside door to the kitchen. I see you still have room for a few more clocks

clothes pin?.png
 

novicetimekeeper

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Lovely case.



Essentially a lantern clock in a box, right? I find it an interesting transition in clockmaking in England. Was the main purpose to keep the dust off the lantern movement, or just to make it more of a piece of furniture, rather than an antique-looking metal clock hanging on a wall? I need to get back to my books to read about this evolution, again.
Thanks for sharing.

I've read that it was to stop the weights and long pendulum being brushed into by passing people/animals, However given how much these things cost and how much of a status symbol they were it seems to me that it may have been to make it look more like a longcase.
 

Philip Snowden

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Very nice, Phil. Is the purpose of what looks like a clothes pin to silence the bell(photo below for reference)? Lovely dial clock above the outside door to the kitchen. I see you still have room for a few more clocks

View attachment 728996
Yes Bruce the peg does the job and the bell is too loud for our tiny house. If you referring to the dial clock to the left that was the first one I bought in Tooting almost 50 years ago . The 10 inch drop next to it .Palmer of Birmingham is oak and is deadbeat with maintaining power.I’m afraid the room is exhausted so trying to get another plan..May have got that wrong did you mean one of these two Bruce ? Phil

860610F2-FABB-4E35-B71F-3FD557BA8AC0.jpeg 361949EC-7BB4-4A8F-B27B-416E5B4855D0.jpeg
 

Philip Snowden

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Lovely case.






I've read that it was to stop the weights and long pendulum being brushed into by passing people/animals, However given how much these things cost and how much of a status symbol they were it seems to me that it may have been to make it look more like a longcase.
Yes think you right Nick especially children and the weight near the floor .I think this one has the panelling to match the panelled walls in the house it was in .
 

jmclaugh

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Most unusual and interesting. Afaik fitting a lantern clock to a case like this wasn't any form of what you might term a transition in English clock making. The proportions of the hood section and its door makes me wonder what other movement was once in there bearing in mind the typical dial sizes for the period.

There's a John Watts listed who is said to have been free at Stamford 1682 where he worked until shortly before his death in 1719 at Boston.
 

Philip Snowden

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Most unusual and interesting. Afaik fitting a lantern clock to a case like this wasn't any form of what you might term a transition in English clock making. The proportions of the hood section and its door makes me wonder what other movement was once in there bearing in mind the typical dial sizes for the period.

There's a John Watts listed who is said to have been free at Stamford 1682 where he worked until shortly before his death in 1719 at Boston.
Yes that’s the one he mostly put turret clocks into churches I have two other lantern by him which are fusees and one which has an engravers name underneath the chapter ring and London so I wonder did he do his apprenticeship in London and took this engraver to Stamford with him .The mind boggles .
 

bwclock

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Yes Bruce the peg does the job and the bell is too loud for our tiny house. If you referring to the dial clock to the left that was the first one I bought in Tooting almost 50 years ago . The 10 inch drop next to it .Palmer of Birmingham is oak and is deadbeat with maintaining power.I’m afraid the room is exhausted so trying to get another plan..May have got that wrong did you mean one of these two Bruce ? Phil

View attachment 729010 View attachment 729011
Thanks for the additional photos. I was referring to the Kimber. Interesting hands. Interesting that the Palmer drop dial has deadbeat and maintaining power. That makes it pretty special. Bruce

dial clock.png
 

Philip Snowden

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Thanks for the additional photos. I was referring to the Kimber. Interesting hands. Interesting that the Palmer drop dial has deadbeat and maintaining power. That makes it pretty special. Bruce

View attachment 729025
Yes I really like that one I like the way the address is written 608 Wandsworth rd and of course the hands .Had a look and it’s now flats so been knocked down which is a shame still that’s progress.
 

NigelW

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I imagine the clock would originally have had an unspuring balance wheel rather than a pendulum and hung on the wall with a loop and two spikes. I have a lantern from about the same period which now has an anchor escapement and a pendulum the same length as that of a long case.
 

Philip Snowden

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I imagine the clock would originally have had an unspuring balance wheel rather than a pendulum and hung on the wall with a loop and two spikes. I have a lantern from about the same period which now has an anchor escapement and a pendulum the same length as that of a long case.
Nigel I have never seen a J Watts or R Watts clock with hoop and spikes or an alarm and on all I have seen probably 10 the pendulum swung inside of the back pillars with cut outs in the pillars for it to do that.So they would have had a high up bracket or a shelf to sit on .There is no evidence of a balance wheel ever being on the top plate of my three of which two are now fusees .
 

NigelW

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Nigel I have never seen a J Watts or R Watts clock with hoop and spikes or an alarm and on all I have seen probably 10 the pendulum swung inside of the back pillars with cut outs in the pillars for it to do that.So they would have had a high up bracket or a shelf to sit on .There is no evidence of a balance wheel ever being on the top plate of my three of which two are now fusees .
Interesting. I bought my clock, by Thomas Swinnerton of Newcastle under Lyme in Staffordshire, from Brian Loomes who dated it to around 1685. He pointed out to me where the balance wheel would have been. The hook was adapted to become a pendulum backcock and the spikes are long gone, as are the original frets and side doors. Thomas had two brothers, one of whom is my ancestor hence my interest. My surname is Watts but I have no clockmaker ancestor on that side to my knowledge. I am familiar with Brounker Watts but not J or R Watts - were they London makers too? I imagine that Newcastle was a bit behind London in terms of the adoption of the pendulum.

I have kept the anchor escapement but had to make a pendulum as it didn't come with one. A previous owner had had new frets, hand and side doors made but hadn't finished getting it back into working order and Loomes sold it to me in that condition. I made and fitted a new pinion of report, ratch etc to support the single hand operation along the lines of what might have been there originally. The two handed motion work it came with was clearly from a different clock and wasn't right. It was my first attempt at a major restoration rather then just an overhaul of an antique clock.

My latern clock from auction catalogue.jpg
 

Philip Snowden

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Interesting. I bought my clock, by Thomas Swinnerton of Newcastle under Lyme in Staffordshire, from Brian Loomes who dated it to around 1685. He pointed out to me where the balance wheel would have been. The hook was adapted to become a pendulum backcock and the spikes are long gone, as are the original frets and side doors. Thomas had two brothers, one of whom is my ancestor hence my interest. My surname is Watts but I have no clockmaker ancestor on that side to my knowledge. I am familiar with Brounker Watts but not J or R Watts - were they London makers too? I imagine that Newcastle was a bit behind London in terms of the adoption of the pendulum.

I have kept the anchor escapement but had to make a pendulum as it didn't come with one. A previous owner had had new frets, hand and side doors made but hadn't finished getting it back into working order and Loomes sold it to me in that condition. I made and fitted a new pinion of report, ratch etc to support the single hand operation along the lines of what might have been there originally. The two handed motion work it came with was clearly from a different clock and wasn't right. It was my first attempt at a major restoration rather then just an overhaul of an antique clock.

View attachment 729881
Nigel your Lantern looks very nice with that engraved dial and not too wide a chapter ring and that it’s from your home town .It’s great that you can do that restoration to your clocks .I haven’t a clue on restoring I just buy clocks I think I would like and hope for the best.
John and Robert Watts are from Stamford Lincs my home town and a friend of mine near there has written small books on them .Funny enough years ago I think it was Birmingham clock Fair I picked up my first Lantern ever and it was by J Watts couldn’t believe it.But when he sad how much I didn’t buy it. Two weeks later I was at his farm in Somerset buying it and I don’t regret it.
I believe that J Watts was probably an apprentice in London as under one of his chapter rings is an engravers name and London so maybe they met in London.
The man who wrote the books on Watts was a guide at Browne’s Hospital in Stamford which originally had a J W clock in it which R W looked after for years.One day he decided to look in a big chest there was just brown paper in the bottom he lifted it up and there in the bottom was 50 paid bills for repairing the clock and winding and even painting the dial from 1700 to 1759 .You couldn’t make it up .Oh must have bored you to tears.
 

Rich Newman

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Lovely case.

I've read that it was to stop the weights and long pendulum being brushed into by passing people/animals, However given how much these things cost and how much of a status symbol they were it seems to me that it may have been to make it look more like a longcase.
Clocks (and especially watches) were one of the most expensive consumer goods that one could buy. Disruption of the anchor's long pendulum may have factored, but fear of clocks coming off the wall & crashing on the floor, especially as longer running movements & their heavier weights became popular, is the reason why the tall case design took over. At least that's the prevailing theory. I don't think it would have taken many stories of clocks pulling loose from the wall to end the popularity of the hook & spike.
 
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NigelW

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There is a most interesting John Watts chiming clock built along the lines of a lantern but in a grand marquetry long case style case on Carter Marsh's website. Judging by this clock alone he was a most accomplished maker. Not sure the rules allow me to post a link but it comes up on Google.
 

Philip Snowden

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There is a most interesting John Watts chiming clock built along the lines of a lantern but in a grand marquetry long case style case on Carter Marsh's website. Judging by this clock alone he was a most accomplished maker. Not sure the rules allow me to post a link but it comes up on Google.
Yes I have actually seen that clock years ago in Walwyn‘s shop when he was in Notting Hill and Church St with Raferty .I have an almost identical 30 hour one by Chambers of Deene which was almost certainly made in Watts workshop in Stamford and made for Deene Park the Cardigans residence 1680/90 but in an Oak case made for it in about 1780 as I believe it was originally a wall clock
 
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zedric

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There is a most interesting John Watts chiming clock built along the lines of a lantern but in a grand marquetry long case style case on Carter Marsh's website. Judging by this clock alone he was a most accomplished maker. Not sure the rules allow me to post a link but it comes up on Google.
The rules about posting links to items that are for sale appear to have changed quite recently, and I believe that posting a link to a live auction may now be allowed. But this may only apply to European watches, as it was only announced in the European watch forum…
 

novicetimekeeper

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The rules about posting links to items that are for sale appear to have changed quite recently, and I believe that posting a link to a live auction may now be allowed. But this may only apply to European watches, as it was only announced in the European watch forum…
It's across the forum.
 

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