john Voyce, Deane , Gloucestershire 1697-1736

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by novicetimekeeper, Dec 10, 2018.

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  1. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
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    There were quite a few in the family, this one a son of the original. I rather liked the dial, seems to have original hands, and from what I've seen of the movement it is not badly messed about.

    I think it was a longcase originally, as far as I can work out it is a 10" dial

    Still it has a nice brass cased weight, a good pendulum, and those are worth 50% of what I paid for it.

    image3.JPG image1 (1).JPG voyce 1.jpg
     
  2. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

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    That looks very nice! Will be interesting to see some better photos when you receive it.

    Well done.
     
  3. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
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    Yes, I shall be interested too!

    We both said we knew the name. It was the suggested maker for a 30 hour musical longcase, well a Voyce if not this one. We also saw this go for auction a while back similar chapter ring.

    18th Century Pine Longcase Clock by Voyce of Mitcheldean
     
  4. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Well it turned up, and it is full of surprises.

    First it is 9", so it is a hooded clock.

    However that is the least of it.

    It has no collets, it looks like new but it has been cleaned and polished to a very high standard disguising its considerable age.

    It is a very unusual design.

    It is rack strike with repeat, the rack having teeth on both sides, the top for the hook and the bottom for the gathering pallet. The lever on the top when pulled to the right lifts the rack hook by sliding the pin up that slope.

    The minute arbour goes all the way through the movement and has a pin through it on the back.

    The dial plate has no feet, the feet are on the chapter ring, they are pinned after going through the dial plate and again where they go through the movement.

    The minute wheel has a large leg which lifts the rack release.

    The calendar wheel has a cast flag and is mounted on an iron cock.

    The hands are in my opinion original.

    The matting follows the shape of the date aperture.

    The clock is a real one off, and extremely well made. It was restored in 1959.

    DSC_0990.JPG DSC_0991.JPG DSC_0994.JPG DSC_0993.JPG DSC_0992.JPG
     
  5. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    matting and a rather good boxwood or fruitwood pulley. Also an example of how shiny an old bit of iron looks.

    49643172_2296309717267591_2117971746593177600_n.jpg 50236704_290746404965469_1956231662001979392_n.jpg 49552289_343671679788088_4395634620679323648_n.jpg 49482153_2489100657773341_4013935010158477312_n.jpg
     
  6. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    This one went at auction last year for a paltry £160, and is also 9". It was what made me think I'd paid over the odds and was beginning to regret my purchase, though I did feel this dial was better.

    I had no idea how much better though it is streets ahead with rack strike and repeat, a date and original two handed.

    If this case is original perhaps it was a longcase.

    18th Century Pine Longcase Clock by Voyce of Mitcheldean
     
  7. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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  8. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Thanks Bangster, I love it. It was restored in 1959 presumably from a wreck as it had no case. The iron work is all so shiny it looks like chrome plated, never seen anything like it. It would be interesting to know what they used!
     
  9. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Hi Nick, that a lovely stunning clock with a very interesting movement! Are you sure the case is not same age and original? I can't make it out from the pictures, but its look like the good model. I like it very much!! The fact that the wheels don't have collets could point towards very early. Could you put some more pictures from the wheelwork here. Congrats!!
     
  10. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    The case is definitely modern, and I date it from the date scratched on the back of the dialplate. It is well made from quarter sawn oak. Will do some more pics this evening, all the ironwork is so highly polished you would think it was new! He was the first John in the family and born in 1697 so it can't be as old as it looks.
     
  11. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Interestingly, although the guy did so much work on the restoration of a repeating clock, they didn't put in a hole in the case for the repeat cord, so it has probably hardly repeated since!

    DSC_0995.JPG DSC_0996.JPG DSC_0997.JPG DSC_0998.JPG
     
  12. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    When looking at this front plate I thought I was sure it had four mounting points on the movement but there were only three holes. I went back to the dial, yes, four feet.

    Back to the movement, see that little V cut low down on the left by the greatwheel? That's the fourth one. The pin just adds a bit of security to stop any twisting.

    I had also been wondering about the repeat lever shape for lifting the pin on the rack hook. I wondered why it was a V shape when only one side is used. I'll have to check when I get home but I think you can probably pull the lever from either side. I can only think the advantage of this to the owner is you might stand it in a corner so one side might be easier to access than the other. The case maker just needs to put a hole in either side of the hood.
     
  13. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Nick, its quite an interesting movement. The circular cut outs on the plates do remind me of clockmakers like Booth from Sutton in Asfield. I know more clockmaker in that area used cut outs in the plates. I don't know if this clockmaker is from that area? I certainly think this clock is older then you think. I have a clock by Cornelius Muzzel from Bolney which has all the earlier features then his details in the books suggest. Then I found out that there was an earlier Cornellius who was blacksmith and gunsmith. I think this Cornelius made also clocks as many gunsmiths did , and then everything fits for the age of the clock. It would not suprise me there is another earlier John Voice?
     
  14. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I agree, it appears to be a 17th century clock.

    Cut out dials feature in the West as well as the Midlands and the North. This has several features of a Derbyshire clock but it is definitely Mitcheldean in Gloucestershire and as far as my knowledge of the family goes John is 3rd generation clockmaker.

    There are other clocks by him with similarities, he may well have been a bit old fashioned in style, that certainly happens and this is from a very rural area.

    It is a credit to the maker but also the restorer who clearly saved it in 1959. I only know their initials.
     
  15. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    As suspected, the repeat lever works in either direction, presumably optional for the owner on where they set the clock up, though the replacement hood has no holes for repeat cord.

    I have ordered the book of Gloucestershire makers which has a small section on the Voyce family.
     
  16. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I have the book, Gloucestershire clock & watchmakers by Graham Dowler, published by phillimore & Co 1984.

    There is a short section on the Voyce Family, including a family tree and a copy of the assets of John Voyce on his death in 1736 as he died intestate.

    At the time of his death he appears to have been a grocer, but is listed as a former clockmaker.

    Here is the family tree, although Graham Dowler says Voyce was a common name in the Forest of Dean and that there can be some confusion I think this John Voyce is the maker, he clearly kept to some old techniques as well as introducing some quirks of his own.

    DSC_1004.JPG
     
  17. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I met a dealer recently who had another pine longcase like the one in the link, confirming to me that this was once a longcase.

    It will remain as a hooded clock now. The case has been refinished, we decided not to change it. It is up in the kitchen awaiting the clock.

    Things are moving slowly but I think this looks better already. The odd colour was lacquer, which may have been affected by smoking, I removed the lacquer and resilvered.

    I think I'll live with the gold look of the brass for the moment.

    DSC_1292.JPG
     
  18. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    your call... i think it’s gorgeous
     
  19. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    He has found a home, I do have the pendulum and weight for this one, will check the wall fixing first

    DSC_1302.JPG
     

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