John Spinney, Blandford, 8 day longcase, what is this case then?

[novicetimekeeper]

Just won this in a job lot of two clocks, the other is rubbish and will be split up.

There were two John Spinneys, father and son. I think by style this is the senior, and I guess 1730-40.

The auctioneer said mahogany, which would suggest a marriage. However I'm pretty sure it isn't mahogany, certainly not most of it. The plinth I think has later timber.

I was initially concerned it had been a 30 hour but I think it has always been 8 day.

It is being delivered directly to the cabinet maker so we shall know eventually!

Has had some interference, hour hand is later, second hand too I think. Weights are cast iron.

 

[Jeremy Woodoff]

I don't have my books nearby, but the dial spandrels might be a little later, maybe 1750? The winding holes drilled right through the engraving pattern might be cause for concern, but perhaps not. It's a pretty, nicely-proportioned clock, I think.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

The spandrels are the least helpful design you can get. First recorded in 1709 used by Tompion, they were in continuous use until the end of the brass dial period.

My immediate thought when I first saw it was that it was a converted 30 hour, but the dial always seems to have had four feet, the dial always seems to have had a seconds subsidiary.

I can't know until I see it in person but I'm pretty sure it is ok.

 

[zedric]

Congratulations- a local maker, a bit of intrigue and an interesting dial. What's not to like about clock collecting!

 

[Bernhard J.]

Winding holes drilled through the engraving is imo only one potential hint for a mariage. But if the dial posts are original and fit the movement, and no other changes of the dial are evident, this would seem the indicate that the dial is original to the movement. I have the same situation in my Knox clock and I find absolutely no detail evidence for something having been "redone". Perhaps at least in case of provincial clocks the makers bought in engraved dials in a number, which they then fitted to movements according to orders and made the necessary winding holes.

Looking at the movement pillars, I would think a little bit late than you suggest?

This is a lovely clock! Do you intend to refinish the dial? If it were mine, I would at least consider leaving it as it is.

 

[jmclaugh]

Another one local to you. Nice dial engraving and yes looks like it is the father's. There was also a William Spinney working in Blandford, brother of John(I) and his son William. Hopefully it is all pukka.

The case appears quite dirty so a clean should reveal what wood it is.

 

[oldcat61]

Checked the dial of our John Key of

Dumbarton and the winding holes just nick the engraving. Several of his clocks have different patterns and the Dumbarton guild records indicate he did his own engraving.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Looking at the movement pillars, I would think a little bit late than you suggest?

This is a lovely clock! Do you intend to refinish the dial? If it were mine, I would at least consider leaving it as it is.

The pillars are ringed, which followed from finned, so 1730-40 is fine for that.

I think the hands need sorting but I probably won't touch anything but the case for quite a while. It needs lead weights, which I will have here anyway.

 

[DeanT]

What a lovely dial and engraving. A wonderful mix of early provincial clockmaking. 1730-40 seems a likely date of manufacture but its always hard with provincial clocks. The base might be mahogany as it has a redder colour but I don't think the trunk is. Walnut or fruitwood would seem the obvious woods but given its provincial anything is possible. Scott will know....

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I have a Kent clock with ringed pillars that Brian Loomes dated as 1720 though I challenged that and we agreed on 1730. That has larger arabic numerals than this and the more conventional matted centre with some engraving, though it does have ringed winding holes.

I have seen another John Spinney brass dial in a bookshop in Blandford, I can't remember what it looks like but now I will have to go back and look.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I have a Kent clock with ringed pillars that Brian Loomes dated as 1720 though I challenged that and we agreed on 1730. That has larger arabic numerals than this and the more conventional matted centre with some engraving, though it does have ringed winding holes.

I have seen another John Spinney brass dial in a bookshop in Blandford, I can't remember what it looks like but now I will have to go back and look.

It was much later, flat top case on an arched dial, so didn't get me any further, though that was drilled through engraving too. Perhaps it was a family thing!

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Nobody got this right certainly not me!

The case is silver birch.

Given it has virtually no visible grain usually we have decided to ebonise it.

 

[DeanT]

Nobody got this right certainly not me!

The case is silver birch.

Given it has virtually no visible grain usually we have decided to ebonise it.

I was right about the wood as I said Scott would know…I also said anything was possible but I didn’t even know they used silver birch….LOL

I always thought it was lovely and now it is rare as well.

 

[zedric]

I always associate silver birch with very slender trunks, so odd to see it used on a clock. Will look good ebonized though, and it will probably highlight the dial nicely

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I always associate silver birch with very slender trunks, so odd to see it used on a clock. Will look good ebonized though, and it will probably highlight the dial nicely

They usually grow amongst other trees so end up tall and spindly, but growing alone they can form quite large trees, though not that long lived.

 

[JimmyOz]

Just a question about the movements front plate. it seems very thin, is this normal? I would think this would ware/rut the pivots quite fast?
Also looking at the dial and the winding arbor holes and the seconds hand, the left hole is centered the right hole is to the left and the seconds hand is to the right

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Just a question about the movements front plate. it seems very thin, is this normal? I would think this would ware/rut the pivots quite fast?
Also looking at the dial and the winding arbor holes and the seconds hand, the left hole is centered the right hole is to the left and the seconds hand is to the right

The plates are cast, and generally will vary in thickness across the plate. It does seem particularly thin in one corner.

I had a quick look at the movement/dial yesterday, I can see no evidence so far that they have not always been together.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Looking at it again that plate is very thin. That's quite unusual. The clock has also been modified to move the bell and put the hammer on the back, I don't know why. There are various unexplained holes.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

This clock is full of surprises, and they continue.

Scott, the cabinet maker, has started work on the case and just rang me about it. He now thinks that rather than Birch it might be Virginia Walnut, or Black Walnut as it is known.

The timing fits, as we were importing a fair bit of it by the mid 18thC.

Work continues, but if that is what it is then we are considering not ebonising, but rather restoring the case to polished walnut. It depends how damaged it is and whether he can get it all to look the same.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

This clock is full of surprises, and they continue.

Scott, the cabinet maker, has started work on the case and just rang me about it. He now thinks that rather than Birch it might be Virginia Walnut, or Black Walnut as it is known.

The timing fits, as we were importing a fair bit of it by the mid 18thC.

Work continues, but if that is what it is then we are considering not ebonising, but rather restoring the case to polished walnut. It depends how damaged it is and whether he can get it all to look the same.

When you say, "Virginia walnut", you mean it was imported from the colony of Virginia?

I know on this side of the Atlantic, it might be a bit unusual, though not unheard of, for a "country" cabinet maker, especially if not close to a port city (land transportation was difficult), to use an imported hardwood?

More typical for them to use locally available woods, e.g., pine, popular, maple, birch, cherry, (and yes, walnut), etc. Sometimes the local woods were grained in imitation of a "better" imported wood, like mahogany.

Again, may not have been as true in the UK.

RM

 

[novicetimekeeper]

When you say, "Virginia walnut", you mean it was imported from the colony of Virginia?

I know on this side of the Atlantic, it might be a bit unusual, though not unheard of, for a "country" cabinet maker, especially if not close to a port city (land transportation was difficult), to use an imported hardwood?

More typical for them to use locally available woods, e.g., pine, popular, maple, birch, cherry, (and yes, walnut), etc. Sometimes the local woods were grained in imitation of a "better" imported wood, like mahogany.

Again, may not have been as true in the UK.

RM

We didn't have exotic hardwoods. We imported most of our walnut from France, but as a lot of it went into gun stocks which we liked to use on the French they went off it a bit. Then they had a problem with the timber stocks themselves I believe and there was a total ban.

Black Walnut from Virginia was introduced into the UK in the last quarter of the 17th century and the trade was quite large by 1730/40. We were already importing mahogany from Honduras, and Brazil.

 

[wspohn]

Lovely dial.

Black walnut can have a very nice if often subtle graining - assume that you will clean it up a bit to see if this is the case before going ahead with ebonizing it.

Nice score, Nick!

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Lovely dial.

Black walnut can have a very nice if often subtle graining - assume that you will clean it up a bit to see if this is the case before going ahead with ebonizing it.

Nice score, Nick!

That's the new plan. Rather than the minimal prep needed to ebonise it the case will now be cleaned back completely to see if it would come up well if polished. If it does then that will become the new plan. If not, then we can still go ahead and eboniose it.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Case has come up rather well, not a cheap experience but worth it to me. Before included for comparison

 

[DeanT]

Love the English understatement “rather well”….looks fantastic to me! Love it.

Is it veneer or solid wood BTW?

 

[P.Hageman]

Very nice indeed!! Like the color, is this as you call it "Black walnut" ?

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Solid wood, no veneer. Yes, this is called black walnut or Virginia walnut. Not as figured as English or French walnut but more beetle resistant.

 

[DeanT]

Solid wood, no veneer. Yes, this is called black walnut or Virginia walnut. Not as figured as English or French walnut but more beetle resistant.

It’s a lovely colour and I suspect the case is very heavy given it’s a solid hardwood.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

It’s a lovely colour and I suspect the case is very heavy given it’s a solid hardwood.

Probably like the case the fennel is in, thick oak planks that one, very heavy.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

This case was delivered today and the dial and movement sent for restoration.

The pictures do not do it justice, it is such a marvellous colour, and with such a deep lustrous finish, I absolutely adore it.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Took some with my phone, they might give an idea.

 

[P.Hageman]

Very well done, beautiful color and soft shine!! Must feel like velvet on your fingertips. By the way, there seem to be to much clocks there in that room

 

[novicetimekeeper]

That's the hall, just inside the front door. Yes, it feels amazing, you want to stroke it. Scott is very pleased with it and enjoyed doing it.

 

[WIngraham]

Chatoyance like that is hard to capture. That is beautifully done. Looks great.

And it still shows proper age. Nice.

 

[daveR]

I also agree. Under the slightly brighter inside light (which I hope doesn't fade it too much ) it looks quite different with a lot more detail and depth to the grain.
And wingham, thanks for the new word,one which i haven't encountered before, but which seems entirely appropriate for this use of it !

 

[ToddT]

Beautiful!

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I also agree. Under the slightly brighter inside light (which I hope doesn't fade it too much ) it looks quite different with a lot more detail and depth to the grain.
And wingham, thanks for the new word,one which i haven't encountered before, but which seems entirely appropriate for this use of it !

Yes I had to look it up too!

Photos taken with flash. As the house is stuffed with art and antiques the curtains are always drawn and South and West facing windows have greenhouse shading on them.

This will move to my bedroom later today, a temporary position but I will swap it with another clock later on for a permanent position in the bedroom.