John Johnson???

[Omexa]

Hi, I just got these and I thought that it may add to Oliver's Data Base. There are 3 Question marks in the title = 3 movements. Photos 1&2 are the same movement only needing a Fusee Chain and the Hinge straightened from when the Case was twisted off and then it may run. The next movement is a Massey 3, needs a Hairspring, has a Fusee Chain and needs Dial etc. The last movement is missing lots and has a broken Balance. Away you go Keith, Oliver, PL. and others. Regards Ray

 

[Keith R...]

Ray, it's late for both of us...........you mean Josh Johnson, (or Joseph) and SN#15262,
(table roller) is 100% in my opinion. I'm still sniffing the first one, second one is not,
I'm pretty sure. I'll take a fresh look in the morning, but 15262 get's the nod now.


Watch# 2 with wide cock foot, if a Johnson of the period at 2xxx would have patent
detached, I believe if Massey III and a Johnson, not Patent Lever. When seeing lever
on the foot of the balance cock for a true Johnson, it's like post 1835. The sig does not
look right, it lacks the address, (as does watch 1).

IMHO sir.

PS Boss, when you wake up, you should count 3 watches. When you wake up, I hope
you see watches, 1198, 2550, 15262. When I wake up, if I see 2, I'm going back to real
coffee.



Keith

 

[Omexa]

Hi Keith, "Ray, it's late for both of us...........you mean Josh Johnson, (or Joseph)" When I made the Folder I already had a Josh Johnson and a J Johnson Folder and the Computer was giving me a hard time so it ended up John Johnson. I knew you would not mind. You are right it is late and I am going to bed to watch " Inspector Montalbano". I will probably fall asleep halfway through. Regards Ray

 

[Keith R...]

^^Good night Ray, see my PS in post #2

Keith

 

[Lychnobius]

Ray, thank you for making these available.

I must say I have my doubts about all three. No. 1198, with its protruding cock screw and separate regulator scale, cannot I think be much older than 1850, and this seems impossible to reconcile with the low number. It could just possibly be an early product of the Brownlow Hill enterprise (run by a Joseph Johnson who seems to be quite independent of the Church Street family), dating from before he began to place his address on all movements. On No. 2550 the lettering is coarse and the cock decoration is unlike any other Johnson I have seen so far. No. 15262 is more convincing and seems to be a quality movement, but again it has the thick-headed cock screw and the bolt-on regulator quadrant; my 15488 has neither.

Nonetheless, I shall put them all into the database. My judgements may be wrong, and so I shall continue my policy of including all doubtful items together with a brief statement of the reasons why I consider them doubtful, so that all who disagree can inspect the same evidence that is available to me.

Oliver Mundy.

 

[Keith R...]

Oliver, is it possible to have a separate section in the data base housing those of questionable origin,
until such point they could be ruled in or out?

Keith

 

[MartyR]

Oliver, is it possible to have a separate section in the data base housing those of questionable origin, until such point they could be ruled in or out?

I think that would be a bad mistake. If "questionable" examples are removed from proximity to authentic ones, readers will be less able to determine their authenticity or otherwise. Also, keeping both categories together is itself a valuable educational tool, helping readers to detect non-authentic watches in future.

 

[Lychnobius]

In addition, transplanting the doubtful items to a separate appendix would involve many hours of additional work. I have marked them with red asterisks so that they can be easily identified.

Oliver Mundy.

 

[Omexa]

Hi Oliver, "I have marked them with red asterisks so that they can be easily identified." how do I get updated versions of the Data Base? 1198 I have a really good chance of getting going; I really like the Flowers on the Massey 3 which I may get going and the last movement needs lots. I posted these movements on the forum so that people can get an idea of how popular Josh Johnson was, with his really large entry into the American Market that prompted other Makers to copy him to sell into that Market. I wonder if Josh Johnson sold to Markets in South America and India like John Walker did. Regards Ray

 

[Omexa]

From Oliver: "I have just found, in an eight-year-old thread, an interesting posting by Richard Watkins: -

'Early Johnson watches were probably made by/for him, but later the name was used by another maker. The serial numbers are strange; No 4769 is 1825 but No 8728 is 1822! These early watches often have Massey lever escapements. They have a balance cock which is a broad wedge shape with a scalloped edge. I would guess yours [No. 6724 - described, but not illustrated, by the original poster] is circa 1825.' ". Could this be one of what is mentioned? Regards Ray