John Grant London

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Keith R..., Jan 7, 2019.

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  1. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Nov 27, 2012
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    I just purchased my first John Grant Fleet Street verge. This watch maker is
    John Sr. who died in 1810. Now the case is 1836, but it does not take a rocket
    scientist to figure out they did not make Tompion regulators much, post 1820.

    I found Ray's example in the archives, which in fact is John Jr.. Ray shared a
    repeater from Grant yesterday and it seems this maker put out some high end
    watches. So we know it is a re-case and I told Ray, the safest way to portray
    this Grant verge, is call it 1810, until such time other examples might bring the
    date earlier into the 1800's. Movement SN# 2037.

    So here is a pair cased watch with a sweep seconds hand and an upper time
    only feature, for hour & minute, with both cases hallmarked for 1836. Note, I think
    the diamond end stone on it, is a replacement.

    Keith R...

    drw5 (800x600).jpg drw4 (800x600).jpg drw3 (800x600).jpg drw (800x600).jpg drw6 (800x600).jpg
     
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  2. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    Grant Senior was a superb clockmaker, and would have specified high end watches for his clients.
     
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  3. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    #3 gmorse, Jan 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
    Hi Keith,

    Yes, the present one is much smaller, not well fitted and not nearly as pretty as the original would have been.

    Both the John Grants, father and son, were very fine makers and John senior inherited Alexander Cumming's business in London, and was also one of the earliest makers of lever escapements after Thomas Mudge's invention.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  4. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    I didn't realise he inherited, I knew he was in the same premises.
     
  5. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Nov 27, 2012
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    Now I had a PM that probably is a valid criticism. I make an assumption that it's a
    re-case, as the movement number is not in the case and it's hallmarked for 1836.
    I had a hard time trying to imagine the movement sat on the shelf for 16 years or so.

    Why use 1810, I know that's when he died and prefer to play it safe. I have had others
    chime in that own one and show theirs with a date. I was bidding on #325 verge by
    Grant of London, but It did not have a hallmark date that I captured.

    Once I can get better info, I will update the best date I can give for #2037. I suspect
    some collectors are not used to English cases wearing out, requiring replacements. I
    think Graham always summed up the old verges as tough old watches, that just kept
    on ticking.

    Thanks for the feedback team!!

    Keith R...
     
  6. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Nov 27, 2012
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    Well, obviously my PM adviser must have a Grant Verge of 75 Fleet Street.

    I went through DP's archives and found 2 rack levers, one 14J dated at 1810.
    So the rack was 35xx and I have deduced most I have studied, travel the following
    path as watch makers. In usual order it's Verge, cylinder, duplex, rack lever, lever.
    If Grant's rack lever was 1810, I'll back up his verge to 1795, considering mine is
    SN #2037 in an out of period case (I'll call it pending).

    Keith R...

    drw (800x600).jpg
     
  7. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Nick, thanks for keeping us grounded. My dad had clocks, but when Mom passed,
    my oldest sister got the clocks. I catch myself not reading up on clocks, unless there's
    a write up in the bulletin.

    Thanks for helping us appreciate both.

    Keith R...
     
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  8. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #8 Keith R..., Jan 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
    Feedback from Oliver on this one, not much later than 1790.

    Keith R...

    So I await the Grant verge and the Brinkman lever to complete.
     
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  9. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Tracking says it's at the Louisville distribution center. Worse case is 2 days.
    I will call the Grant verge 1790, until I get best available info.

    Keith R...
     
  10. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    The good news, it made it's way home. I took a few pics with my 57MM Augusta Saltzman
    and will also time it with this 15J watch. Startup time is about 50 minutes away and after
    shut down, I'll take a few more pics.

    Note, Ray and I have had discussions regarding these watches that needed replacement
    cases. If one thinks about it, my previous notes indicated English watches, the silver cases
    had about a 25 to 30 year wear cycle on the outer case. I estimate this watch to be about
    1790 after hearing from Oliver.

    Keith R...

    100_3762 (800x600).jpg
     
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  11. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #11 Keith R..., Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    Well, it's off and running and I checked all positions. Smooth wind to the stop.
    However, I checked the outer case which mates perfectly and it's a fancy A
    for Birmingham 1824. My first thought, a mismatch (which it was advertised
    as 1836). When checking the inner case, it's a match, fancy A Birmingham
    1824, So please note the replacement cases are both for 1824.

    I've got it timing at the kitchen table and will check it throughout the day. I
    have been trailing this style of verge for about 4 years, but they seemed a
    bit expensive. I must acknowledge the replacement cases played a part in
    keeping the hammer price down. I am well pleased with this verge.

    Note, almost forgot, case maker initials JW (1824) Birmingham.

    Until the next post on this great maker.

    Keith R...
     
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  12. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Well, it has run continuously, with the end result being +40 minutes in about 24hrs. So it is
    definitely heading in for a cleaning and adjustment. I'm pleased I had no issues with the
    watch.

    Keith R...
     
  13. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #13 Keith R..., Jan 14, 2019 at 5:54 PM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019 at 6:42 PM
    This one boxed up and will go to Montana tomorrow, (one on right).

    Keith R...

    100_3762 (800x600).jpg
     
  14. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Ole John Grant is on his way to Bozeman, MT.........................Keith R...
     

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