Jobbers ,Wholesalers Catalogs

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Kent, Oct 25, 2015.

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  1. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    #1 Kent, Oct 25, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
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  2. Larry Treiman

    Larry Treiman Registered User

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    #2 Larry Treiman, Oct 25, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
    Re: Jobbers

    Excellent! This should be among the permanent threads at the head of the Am. Pkt. Watch forum index page. Perhaps it could be the first of a new category, if one of the existing categories isn't appropriate.

    Larry

    [EDIT] I believe that "wholesaler" may have been a more appropriate term than "jobber" for the type of businesses that issued these catalogs, particularly at the time they were issued. At that time "jobber" had a different connotation, and that may or may not still be true today.

    lt
     
  3. RON in PA

    RON in PA Registered User
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    Re: Jobbers

    Another vote to make this a sticky and thanks Kent.
     
  4. Marty101

    Marty101 Registered User
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    Re: Jobbers

    Absolutely.
     
  5. onsite

    onsite Registered User

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    Re: Jobbers

    [QUOTE=
    Larry

    I believe that "wholesaler" may have been a more appropriate term than "jobber" for the type of businesses that issued these catalogs, particularly at the time they were issued. At that time "jobber" had a different connotation, and that may or may not still be true today.

    lt[/QUOTE]


    Larry, just to clarify, what is a jobber and how does he differ from a wholesaler? Please expound.
     
  6. darrahg

    darrahg Moderator
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    Re: Jobbers

    I have a couple of books on my shelf that you might want to check and see if they are listed somewhere for access. They sold watch parts and tools too.

    E.L.F. Tool & Material Catalogue (Edwards-Ludwig-Fuller Jewelry Co., S.E. Corner 8th and Walnut Streets, Kansas City, Missouri) 1908

    C.H. Knights & Co. Supply Catalogue, Columbus Memorial Building, Chicago 1908-1909
     
  7. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Re: Jobbers

    FWIW, I believe "jobbers" was an appropriate period term for these dealers and that its usage appears in the old trade periodicals.
     
  8. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Re: Jobbers

    I have 30 or so such catalogs in my "library" but scanning them all to post here is too time consuming. I can list some of the "titles" and if anyone needs some specific info from one I might be persuaded to post selected pages.
     
  9. Larry Treiman

    Larry Treiman Registered User

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    #9 Larry Treiman, Oct 28, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
    Re: Jobbers


    I made that statement based on what I recalled from discussions in various Business Administration courses that I took at U.C.L.A. during the early 1960s. After posting it, I decided to do a "Google" search on the difference between "jobber" and "wholesaler" (I don't recall exactly how I worded the search). I still stand by what I said, but I will add that over the years the distinction has become blurred.

    The term "jobber" came from the fact that the original jobbers dealt in "job lots" which they purchased from manufacturers, business liquidators, importers, etc. They probably bought and resold at prices below those of other wholesalers.

    Wholesalers carried (and still do carry) full lines of merchandise, usually presented in large, hard-bound, profusely-illustrated catalogs, often with inserts (later in color) bound in and provided by the manufacturers whose lines the wholesaler carried. I have a few, ranging from one from C.A. Kiger of Kansas City, with about 250 pages (probably from the mid to late 1920s, to a couple from Benj. Allen & Co. of Chicago. One from 1926 has over 750 pages, but was extensively clipped and otherwise damaged. To me at least, the fact that the companies issued those catalogs differentiated them from the the jobbers. But it is not worth discussing, IMO.

    I don't really want to go into this subject any further because, frankly, it bores me! That was why I switched from Bus Ad to a completely different discipline. If you really want to know more, do a search like I did! Personally, I don't really care! I like to see the language used properly, which was why I commented, but I think it is a lost cause, at least as far as the internet is concerned. I regret even taking the time to commeng in the first place. Call them wholesalers or jobbers or whatever you like. The damned internet has probably made any distinction useless by now, anyway! <];>)

    Larry
     
  10. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Re: Jobbers

    Here is a nice little quote from an 1885 watch trade magazine:

    img623.jpg

    It's not a terribly important point to me, but it's not an invention of the "internet times" that jobber and wholesaler were synonyms. They were in the watch and jewelry trade going way way back.
     
  11. Tom McIntyre

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    Re: Jobbers

    I had always thought they were named based on the style of transaction.

    Jobbers gather orders from retailers with flexible demand schedules and then package them for manufacturers so that the job order is large enough to justify production.

    Wholesalers take production from manufacturers on speculation and sell the product to retailers.

    A point of interest is that Jobbers can order product with private labels or other distinguishing characteristics from the manufacturer for each retailer. Wholesalers can order special finishes or marking for their own distinction.

    Clearly the same organization could handle both kinds of product flow.

    Either could also,in principle, make modifications to the product before the sale to retailers. In that case, they might be considered an oem with their ownproduct content. It all gets very fuzzy as it does today in manufacturing.
     
  12. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    Re: Jobbers

    TERRIFIC THREAD! Sticky vote here.

    If I can find them, I have some old jobber/wholesalers catelgoues that show Waltham crystal plate watches, early howards, peoria's and even some railroads that are said to have never existed.

    Also have several Norris Allister catalogues, pre-ball and several Ball Company catalogs from the early 1900's.

    will share...when I find them!

    GREAT THREAD!
     
  13. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Sorry to be a pain, but some of the links in this thread don't work.


    Rob
     
  14. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Hi Rob,
    You should post problems in the "message board problems" section where an admin will see them and act on them.
     
  15. Jim Carroll

    Jim Carroll Registered User
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    Kent do you have this pamphlet it has nine pages of jobbers names by state.
    j & M 014.jpg j & M 003.jpg

    j & M 014.jpg j & M 003.jpg
     
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  16. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    These broken links are due to the move to the new Message Board software. As Dave Coatsworth posted, they will have to be fixed by the people who take care of such problems.
     
  17. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Thanks Jim, I don't have it! Unfortunately, the resolution is too low to read accurately. Can you post better (higher resolution) pictures?
     
  18. Jim Carroll

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    #18 Jim Carroll, Jan 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
    sc1.jpg sc2.jpg sc3.jpg
     
  19. Jim Carroll

    Jim Carroll Registered User
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    I had problems with seeing attachments
    sc4.jpg sc5.jpg sc6.jpg
     
  20. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    The preferred current listing (which will reflect updates) is: Jobbers Catalogs
     
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  21. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    FWIW, here's a partial list of such catalogs and price lists in my library. Many are in rather delicate condition so I hesitate to scan too many pages but if there is something specific you might have an interest in just ask. I'll see what I can do.

    Also, if this should go somewhere else feel free to move it.

    Brown & Winterberg, Oct. 1890
    S. F. Meyers, Jan. 1884
    Benj. Allen, Mar. 1899
    Smith & Knapp, Sept. 1891
    Cross & Beguelin, Oct. 1884
    Payne, Steck & Co., May 1887
    H. F. Hahn, Apr. 1887
    C. H. Knights, June 1905
    Quaker City Watch Co., Feb. 1900
    J. T. Scott, Apr. 1876
    L. S. Stowe, Oct. 1890
    Benj. Allen, Mar. 1907
    Benj. Allen, Apr. 1883 (partial)
    Aurora, Oct. 26, 1893
    M. C. Eppenstein, c. 1892
    Bogle Bros., June 1895
    Lapp & Flershem, 1908
    Eisenstadt, Feb. 1908
    Bowman & Musser, July 1883
    L. Ollendorff, Oct. 1889
    L. H. Schaffer, c. 1910
    W. J. Johnston, Nov. 1905
    Bowler & Burdick, c. 1900
    Lapp & Flershem, 1909
    Rockford, c. 1875
    Benj. Allen, 1888
    C. H. Knights, 1908
    J. H. Purdy, c. 1905
    E. A. Cowan, 1910
     
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  22. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Per request, here is the Elgin mvts listed in J. T. Scott & Co., April 1, 1876, price list:

    img185.jpg

    Worth noting is that the stem-winders are not differentiated as either open-face or hunting. Only in later catalogs (c. 1880) is this distinction made. And you can bet your last dollar that these Elgin stem-winders wound at 3 o'clock. And since in the same catalog we see offerings of open-face cases then it is clear that (with few exceptions) if you bought an Elgin stem-winder in 1876 and wanted it in an open-face case that you ended up with a sidewinder (with few exceptions).

    img186.jpg
     
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  23. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Great information Greg

    I know this isn't going to happen but I wish
    every member who had price lists(that we don't have already)
    would scan these, and old jobbers catalouges in their entirely
    and post them in our jobbers section of the encyclopedia(or their appropriate place on the forum)


    Rob
     
  24. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    #25 Kent, Oct 12, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
    Thanks!

    A quick look through the Jobbers Catalogs page shows that the P.W. Ellis and M. C. Eppenstein catalogs are already listed (by the way, the 17-jewel Hampden watches on pages 10 & 11 and lack of 17-jewel Waltham movements on pages 14 & 15 of the M. C. Eppenstein catalog places it in the early 1890s).

    Perhaps a page ought to be started for material catalogs if more like the Benj Allen catalog show up.
     
  25. 4thdimension

    4thdimension Registered User

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    I agree. If I understand correctly, there may be another site server transition in the works. My hope is that I will be able to post pics from my phone as I haven't got a computer. I do have a collection of catalogs I would be happy to share.-Cort
     
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