JNo Percival unusual large Fusee with Coat of Arms on the Cuvette.

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Omexa, Sep 25, 2016.

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  1. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #1 Omexa, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
    Hi, I do tend to purchase unusual Pocket Watches and movements, this time I may have excelled myself. Sellers Description: "Most Unusual Large FUSEE Pocket Watch movement, Seconds dial at 12 , signed JOHN PERCIVAL Woolwich , number 838, circa 1795.

    Listed in Baillies late 18th Century and for a Clock Watch.

    Perfect off-white enamel dial with the seconds dial in reverse and being at 12 rather than the usual 6.
    Gold boss to the original seconds hand. Lacking hour & minute hands.

    Unusual shaped cock with large diamond endstone.

    Fusee lever escapement, winds up & is ticking away well.

    Very well engraved Coat of arms to the sprung dust cover. The cover does NOT click shut, it looks to be a minor adjustment in my [given without prejudice] opinion.
    Worthy of further research. All as imaged. approx. overall
    diameter is 52.44
    mm."

    All I have found so far is, "PERCIVAL, JAMES is noted as working in Woolwich from 1817 to 1855. James Percival is also recorded in Woolwich with a date of 1839. A further Percival, John presumably a relation, was also working in Woolwich from the late 18[SUP]th[/SUP] century until 1811. John served his apprenticeship with Baker Garland, a watchmaker from Woolwich in 1793" The Coat of Arms is interesting and all that I have found so far is that it resembles University College Oxford Coat of Arms. We must have some Oxford Scholars and Heraldry people out there somewhere. 1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 8.jpg 9.jpg s-l1600 - Copy - Copy (2).jpg Regards Ray

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 8.jpg 9.jpg s-l1600 - Copy - Copy (2).jpg
     
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  2. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Ray,

    This is unusual, and I wonder if it was originally cased in some sort of clock. The fitting on the top plate is almost like another brass edge. I also wonder what that second square in the cock foot is for. Perhaps a hand setting square, since it seems to pass right through both plates? I don't see how it could be from 1795, at least not with that balance and that much hairspring!

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  3. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #3 Omexa, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
    Hi Graham, "I wonder if it was originally cased in some sort of clock", I am not sure about that, I have a Sedan Clock? from c1794 and it is much bigger with a 4 inch Dial approx. twice the size of this Dial. I also have 2 other smaller Pocket Watch movements that are Cased in a similar manner. I am pretty sure that you are right and it is set from the back. I wonder if James Percival was the Son of JNo Percival and continued using his Fathers Name for a number of years? The Coat of Arms? interests me and I am waiting for some sort of input about. The Brain is a rather strange thing, despite having a few Beers with friends yesterday, I woke an Hour earlier than usual with less than 5 minutes to the end of the auction. Regards Ray 12.jpg
     
  4. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    The coat of arms doesn't look British to me - maybe more French. I will look into it when I'm back in the UK.
     
  5. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #5 Omexa, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
    9.jpg Hi Martin, I thought that you would have some idea about the Coat of Arms. It does look like the University College Oxford Coat of Arms but different. I have two smaller movements that are cased in a similar way to the Percival movement. Regards Ray university_college_oxford_coat_of_arms_by_chevrontango-d4tnoj9.jpg 13.jpg 14.jpg

    university_college_oxford_coat_of_arms_by_chevrontango-d4tnoj9.jpg 13.jpg 14.jpg 9.jpg
     
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  6. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

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    The heraldic description would be something like:

    A Cross Patonce between four Falcons.

    There are many similar family patterns,
    one such is Writh or Wrythe.

    The small division at the upper left is
    something of a mystery, possibly a clue
    to a more specific answer.
     
  7. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Thanks Lloyd, years ago when I was going to UTAS Tasmanian University in Hobart I worked part time for a Antique Dealer and he was always on about "Provenance, Provenance, Provenance", he explained to me that it made all the difference in value of whatever it was. I am now intrigued with the Coat of Arms, not to up the value, but to satisfy my curiosity. I am desperate to find out who the previous owner was of this Pocket Watch. Regards Ray
     
  8. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    Isn't that the kind of device they added when the eldest son inherited the title?

    Lloyd, do you think the spread eagle at the head of the arms looks British?
     
  9. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

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    To be honest, I'm not convinced it's an eagle --
     
  10. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi, I am starting to think that it may be some other sort of Bird, maybe from South America? Like Peru or Brazil etc.? Regards Ray
     
  11. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi Lloyd, I think that you are right about the Bird, a Perigrine Falcon. It took me ages to trace down the last Coat of Arms or whatever it is, on a Pocket Watch that I purchased years ago in a South African Pawnshop. It turned out to be the 3rd Duke of Montrose who had property in Rhodesia. Regards Ray 1.jpg 2.jpg

    1.jpg 2.jpg
     
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  12. Lychnobius

    Lychnobius Registered User

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    In heraldic engraving, from the late seventeenth century onwards, there was a system of using different kinds of shading to indicate colours. Vertical lines, as in the cross in Ray's escutcheon, represent red (called gules in heraldry), while horizontal lines, as in the background for the crescent in the corner, represent blue (azure). Gold or yellow (called or) is shown by a grid of dots; silver or white (argent) has no lines or dots. This would imply that the arms on Ray's case are not those of University College, since the colours are different even though the motifs (charges) are the same*; the College has gold on blue whereas the owner of Ray's watch had red on silver. They may be those of some family which had strong connections with University College. I think the birds in both cases are martlets, imaginary birds with no feet (note that in both images they have feathered legs but no claws emerging from them); certainly this is true of the birds in the College arms.

    The crescent is a mark sometimes used to indicate that the individual bearer of the arms was the second son of the head of the family.

    *Allowing for changes in the style of heraldic art since the early 1800s, I do think the charges on Ray's engraving are the same as those on the University College shield apart from the colours. Nineteenth-century 'herald-painters' tried to draw things realistically, whereas their modern successors have reverted to a more stylised approach similar to that of mediaeval artists.

    Oliver Mundy.
     
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  13. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #13 Omexa, Sep 26, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
    Hi Oliver, shows how observant I am I completely missed the "No Feet". You have got me a lot further down the line of who the Pocket Watch belonged to. Any ideas about the strange Dial setup? I am also wondering about the Maker and what Date the movement is? I don't think that it has been converted from a Verge there would not be room, not thick enough? I found this:

    "A martlet in English heraldry is a heraldic charge depicting a stylized bird similar to a house martin or swallow, though missing feet. It should be distinguished from the merlette of French heraldry, which is a duck-like bird with a swan-neck and chopped-off beak and legs. Mark of cadency

    It has been suggested that the restlessness of the martlet due to its supposed inability to land is the reason for the use of the martlet in English heraldry as the cadency mark of the fourth son. The first son inherited all the estate by primogeniture, the second and third traditionally went into the Church, to serve initially as priests in a church of which their father held the advowson, and the fourth had no well-defined place (unless his father possessed, as was often the case, more than two vacant advowsons). As the fourth son often therefore received no part of the family wealth and had "the younger son's portion: the privilege of leaving home to make a home for himself", the martlet may also be a symbol of hard work, perseverance, and a nomadic household. This explanation seems implausible, as the 5th and 6th sons were equally "restless", yet no apparent reference is made to this in their proper cadence mark (an annulet and fleur-de-lys respectively).
    Modern significance The formerly supposed inability of the martlet to land is said by some modern commentators to symbolize the constant quest for knowledge, learning, and adventure. The martlet is in the arms of Pembroke College, Cambridge. The martlet has also been incorporated into the modern arms of McGill University, in which the women's athletic teams are named the McGill Martlets; the University of Houston and the University of Houston Law Center; Worcester College, Oxford; Westminster School, the University of Victoria (where the student newspaper is also called The Martlet). The martlet is also used in the coat of arms of the Bromsgrove School and Mill Hill School. The significance of the martlet in the arms of various ancient English colleges and schools is derived quite simply from elements within the arms of their founders."

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Regards Ray
     
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  14. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Well it looks like the Coat of Arms is for a Fourth Son and something to do with Education. Regards Ray
     
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  15. Lychnobius

    Lychnobius Registered User

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    More probably a second son, as implied by the crescent. The martlets are part of the shield itself and are not connected with the use of this same motif as a mark of cadency.

    I was interested by the reference in the Wikipedia article to Mill Hill School [an English 'public' - i.e. private and fee-paying - school on the north-west fringe of London]. I was there fifty years ago.

    Could this movement have begun life as a 'deck-watch', that is a large watch used at sea to relay readings from the chronometer (which would not normally be moved about) to other parts of the ship? I notice that the case screws are an odd pair, and I wonder if this means that the present housing, though certainly old, is not the original one. I believe deck-watches were usually made with escapements which were reasonably precise but more robust than the true chronometer (spring-detent) type, so that the specification here seems appropriate.

    Is the escapement a table type or one of the Masseys - or could it be something more uncommon? I am puzzled by the layout of the pivots on the back plate; that of the lever (I am assuming that the unjewelled one nearest the barrel is for the lever) seems to have two banking pins to the right of it rather than one on each side, and it also appears to be unusually far away from the next one (with a capped jewel, under the spoke of the balance).

    Oliver Mundy.
     
  16. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi Oliver, "Could this movement have begun life as a 'deck-watch', that is a large watch used at sea to relay readings from the chronometer (which would not normally be moved about) to other parts of the ship?" You might have a point, there has to be some reason for the odd layout and the size of the Dial. There are 2 screws (much used) in the outer Casing holding the movement that would I think be used to hold the movement complete with the Cuvette in to another Case or Housing. When I get it I will know more about the type of escapement. Everything about this rather odd setup is different. I would like to know more about the Percival Family, I have found some rather nice Clocks by them. A Deck Watch? now you have got me scratching my head, you could be right Oliver. Regards Ray 2 - Copy.jpg 3 - Copy.jpg

    2 - Copy.jpg 3 - Copy.jpg
     
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  17. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #17 Omexa, Sep 28, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2017
    Hi, I contacted The College of Arms and I received a nice letter (email) from the Portcullis Pursuivant Christopher Vane telling me that the enquiry has been passed on to him. I sent him a photo of the Coat of Arms and I then received an email from Rob Petre College Archivist of St Edmund Hall Queen's Lane, Oxford. "Dear Mr Paige,

    Thank you for your enquiry which has been forwarded to me.

    If you compare your picture with the official arms as seen on the Hall website (www.seh.ox.ac.uk) then you can see how similar they are; your hand-drawn arms do not look that much like choughs, but I have seen much worse versions on records here. However, if the birds are drawn to show the colours, then the fact that the birds have yellow chests does not suggest that they are choughs - but the colour of the cross flory is shown as red, which is the same as ours. The main difference is the top left quadrant which has what appears to be a canton with a crescent moon, a cat and a fiddle (sorry, the image is a bit blurry).

    Do you have a name connected with the coat of arms, please? If so, I can check the records here and with the University Archives to see if there is a connection.

    All the best

    Rob Petre
    College Archivist (part-time)"
    Hi, I did not mention that I suspected the Coat of Arms has a connection to Oxford University; the College of Arms came to the same conclusion as me. I will send him some photos of the Pocket Watch movement that may be of help to him. Regards Ray
     
  18. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi, Oliver's comments has me wondering about the escapement, "Is the escapement a table type or one of the Masseys - or could it be something more uncommon? I am puzzled by the layout of the pivots on the back plate; that of the lever (I am assuming that the unjewelled one nearest the barrel is for the lever) seems to have two banking pins to the right of it rather than one on each side, and it also appears to be unusually far away from the next one (with a capped jewel, under the spoke of the balance)." The movement is on the way to me at the moment. The comments by Rob Petre College Archivist of St Edmund Hall Queen's Lane, Oxford, are interesting; "The main difference is the top left quadrant which has what appears to be a canton with a crescent moon, a cat and a fiddle (sorry, the image is a bit blurry). I am not sure if putting a Cat among the Birds is a good idea. I also had another go at enhancing the Coat of Arms photo, the four Birds on the Shield seem to have Talons but the Bird on top has none. Regards Ray
    ccv.jpg


    ccv.jpg
     
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  19. Lychnobius

    Lychnobius Registered User

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    I still think the four birds are martlets; the three-pointed projections below their bodies are not claws but a representation of the feathers which clothe the legs of certain birds. (We have all, I think, seen representations of eagles apparently wearing baggy trousers; it would seem that a martlet is conceived as being a much bigger bird than its shape would suggest, and as having the feathery legs of a raptor - but no feet emerging from those legs. (Heraldry is a funny game.)

    I had not realised that there was anything in the top left-hand corner (dexter chief point in heraldic terms) other than the crescent. Perhaps the crescent has nothing to do with 'cadency' after all but is an allusion to the old nursery-rhyme 'Hey diddle diddle, / The cat and the fiddle, / The cow jumped over the moon'!

    Oliver Mundy.
     
  20. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi,

    In case anyone's wondering, "dexter" and "sinister" are right and left as seen by the bearer of the shield, not by the viewer.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  21. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Thanks, Graham. In fact I was wondering!
     
  22. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #22 Omexa, Sep 30, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
    Hi all, I am still wondering when this movement was made (an estimate will do for a desperate man) and some more information about the Maker and the original owner? Regards Ray
     
  23. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Ray,

    I think the best guess until you can dismantle this is to say the first quarter of the 19th century. Your detailed examination may well reveal some more concrete clues.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  24. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi, is a passed in Auction considered lapsed? In other words can I use the photo? Regards Ray
     
  25. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    If you took it yes, otherwise you need the permission of the copyright holder. Auction houses are usually very helpful though they may want to watermark them. (then let you use them) I tell them it is for research and educational use, non profit. Ebay sellers normally just say yes.
     
  26. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    It is totally permissible to link to any auction which is not currently active (whether because the item is sold, or withdrawn).

    Linking gets over the problem of photo copyright because the copyright owner gives permission to view by posting it on the internet. The problem of copyright only arises if you copy/paste the image from the auction.
     
  27. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Though some moderators just delete the link for you even if the auction is completed. The other thing is the link could get broken and the pictures lost.
     
  28. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi, why I asked about Auctions is because I have found a number of Clocks made by John Percival. The 2 links that I have found both have Silvered Dials 8/1/2 inches in Diameter. http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/clocks/a-george-iii-mahogany-eight-day-timepiece-5390698-details.aspx https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/tennants-auctioneers/catalogue-id-srten10037/lot-e66b6cd2-d649-4b1c-ba53-a3f901074a71 The Auction websites and other places where I have found mention of John Percival all put forward that the Clocks are c1810-1811. John Percival seemed to have stopped working in 1811; maybe he died? My Percival movement seems to be very advanced with a Bimetallic temperature compensated balance wheel? Regards Ray s-l1600 - Copy - Copy.jpg

    s-l1600 - Copy - Copy.jpg
     
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  29. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi, I would say this is why John Percival stopped working as a Clock and Watchmaker. "Woolwich Churchyard A transcription of Vol's 4 & 5 of Leland. L. Duncan's manuscript note book of Monumental Inscriptions for Woolwich. 729. Mr. John PERCIVAL late of this parish died 7 September 1814 aged 49. Mrs. Mary Percival wife of above died 27 May 1842 aged 86. From: Kent Archaeological Society". Regards Ray
     
  30. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

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    It is a modification, recently. if you look is mounted backwards up side down
    regards enrico
     
  31. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Ray,

    See my post #2 re the balance.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  32. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #32 Omexa, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    Hi, enrico and Graham, what is the reason it is mounted that way? Could it not be mounted the right way up in the first place? I see it all now, you would not be able to use the Bosely Regulator if it had the Hairspring on the top of the Balance. The next thing that comes to mind is "modified from what?" It was made with a Bosely Regulator. Regards Ray
     
  33. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Ray,

    An undersprung compensated balance would take too much room if it was mounted with the crossings at the bottom.

    If the regulator is original, it probably had a plain balance.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  34. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

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    #34 LloydB, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
     
  35. novicetimekeeper

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  36. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi, seeing as it looks like Percival died in 1814, I wonder if a family member did the conversion? "PERCIVAL, JAMES is noted as working in Woolwich from 1817 to 1855. James Percival is also recorded in Woolwich with a date of 1839. A further Percival, John presumably a relation, was also working in Woolwich from the late 18[SUP]th[/SUP] century until 1811. John served his apprenticeship with Baker Garland, a watchmaker from Woolwich in 1793" Regards Ray
     
  37. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi, I finally found in my piles of movements one of my prettiest engraved Pocket Watch movement, that is similar in set up to the Percival. Regards Ray DSC00981.jpg DSC00982.jpg
     
  38. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi, I have been up to my ears in Byrd's, I am now almost certain the Coat of Arms on the John Percival movement is for the Byrd Family who were Huguenots and settled in Virginia America in the early times. I am going to send money to the College of Arms soon for confirmation (short of money at the moment; waiting for the bank to put some money into my account; they are very slow to transfer money) as they reckon that they know who the Coat of Arms belongs to. The Coat of Arms of Richard E Byrd is from Wikipedia. Quartering in heraldry is a method of joining several different coats of arms together in one shield by dividing the shield into equal parts and placing different coats of arms in each division https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Byrd Regards Ray 17.jpg Coat of Arms of Richard E Byrd.PNG

    Coat of Arms of Richard E Byrd.PNG 17.jpg
     
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  39. Keith R...

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    Ray, I feel certain contacting this family will be the key to establishing this name with the coat of arms.
    That does not mean you have to transfer the watch to the Byrd's, but I would think they would be more
    than happy to help you solve the riddle.

    Now I'm in the Bluegrass state, but I do have relatives in Virginia that could help us. Feel free to call
    on me, as I'll do a little digging myself.

    Keith
     
  40. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #40 Omexa, Oct 15, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
    For included Capture. Capture.PNG Sources: Mildred Campbell Whitaker, Genealogy of the Campbell, Noble, Gorton, Shelton, Gilmour and Byrd Families (St. Louis, 1927); Marion Tinling, ed., The Correspondence of the Three William Byrds of Westover, Virginia, 1684-1776 (2 vols., Charlottesville, 1977), II, 825-36; genealogical materials listed in Swem, Virginia Historical Index; William Berry, County Genealogies: Pedigrees of the Families in the County of Kent (London, 1830).
    The Northampton Connection
    The Isham-Washington-Spencer-Randolph-Jefferson-Bland-Beverley-Bolling-Eppes-Hackett Cousinage

    Thanks Keith, the movement should be in my hands this coming week, and I will know more about the escapement etc. Glad you are back on the forum. Your Mate Ray

    Capture.PNG
     
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  41. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #41 Omexa, Oct 19, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
    Byrd information.PNG Hi, a new friend David Gore who has written about the Byrd Family in Virginia http://britishempire.co.uk/biography/byrdwilliam.htm gave me the clue that I think has solved my problem with the Coat of Arms. I downloaded a full copy from a University in California of "The General Armory" 1884 Edition. I have waded through 1370 pages and I think that I have got it. The movement still has not got to me. Regards Ray Another byrde - Copy.PNG
     
  42. Omexa

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    Hi, the movement arrived yesterday and I am very pleased, it runs very strongly and will only need a Clean and oil. I will have to make a new Lid Catch to replace the broken one. There are no Stamps or Numbers anywhere on the movement other than the Makers Name and Serial Number. It has what I think is an early Single Table Roller escapement. Now to the problem of Casing it? Regards Ray 1.jpg 2.jpg 3.JPG 4.JPG 5.JPG 6.jpg

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.JPG 4.JPG 5.JPG 6.jpg
     
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  43. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Ray,

    Yes, looks like a table roller. Did you discover what that square through the cock foot is for? Is it a hand setting arbor? I see it's missing in your latest pictures.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  44. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #44 Omexa, Oct 20, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
    Hi Graham, "is it a hand setting arbor?", yes you are right, it is in the tray. It may have had the Balance changed to a Compensated Balance but it looks like it has been a Table Roller from the Start. If the Date is right for when Percival died 1814 and he stopped working in 1811 this may be the earliest Table Roller? I am very impressed with the Quality and the design of the movement, I have never seen any thing like it before. David Gore the writer about the Byrd Family has been very helpful in discovering what Family the Coat of Arms belongs to. The pinned Wheel is a nice touch. Regards Ray
     
  45. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Ray,

    If the balance has been replaced, as it almost certainly has, what makes you suggest that the table roller is original? A conversion would have involved at least the entire balance, the lever and the escape wheel, as well as other components.

    The pinned minute wheel is a quality feature, which would have been particularly important in this instance, since the hand setting pinion engages with the minute wheel.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  46. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi Graham, because there are no spare holes anywhere, unless the Top Plate was changed as well? There is only a round hole where the Balance goes through no Rectangular Hole if it was previously a Verge. As a matter of interest what sort of escapement if not a Verge previously? Regards Ray
     
  47. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Ray,

    Could have been a cylinder or a duplex, and if properly done, any spare holes would have been plugged flush and the plate re-gilt to cover up the evidence. The underneath surface of the top plate could show more signs perhaps, as well as a close look at the potence.

    I'm not saying that a date of 1814 is totally impossible; Martin's P&F in an 1816 case is an example, but another possibility is that it was originally a plain balance with a Massey escapement which was upgraded to the present full-blown compensated balance later in the 19th century. This wouldn't have left any "spare" pivot holes.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  48. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Mini Portable USB LED 5MP 50X Digital Microscope Video Endoscope Otoscope New.jpg Maybe you are right about it being a Massey Balance. I recently purchased from China [FONT=&amp]Mini Portable USB LED 5MP 50X Digital Microscope Video Endoscope Otoscope New Hope that this will help with close ups. [/FONT]Regards Ray
     
  49. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #49 Omexa, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
    Hi, can someone please explain what all these levers do? This is the Inner Case. I know about the Lift Spring and Catch for the Lid, but I am not sure about the rest. I have just been thinking that the outer Case might have been Gold; it would have weighed heaps. Regards Ray 20161021_144529.jpg
     
  50. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Hi Ray,

    Just a quick question-have you looked at watches for the chinese market. William Anthony was a maker for this market, and its possible Percival too. It would explain the odd case work.

    regards,

    Allan.
     
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