American Jerome & Co. Mini's

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, Jul 24, 2020.

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  1. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Another totally non-Earth shattering post. It's something that I have not seen reported before though I will admit that I haven't done an exhaustive search.

    Previously, I have posted 2 examples of Jerome & Co miniature alarm timepieces. Here's a pic:

    jerome miniature alarms.JPG

    See also this thread:

    Post alarm clocks and other small clocks here

    Scroll down to postings # 126, 129-131.

    IMCO, these are pretty decent examples in original finish. Often the crests are incomplete or missing. Especially the one on the viewer's left. That ornament is held on by 2 tiny brads. The dials are printed onto paper which are in turn applied to a sheet of tin or zinc. They survive in nice condition, too, without too severe fading, staining or tears.

    These, to me, are interesting little clocks. The suspension for the pendulum bob has a coiled spring rather than a flat spring.

    Recently, this clock appeared on that electronic auction site listed as a Junghans no less:

    jerome miniature time pieces and alarm 3.JPG

    It's the time only version. No alarm.

    Again, I think survived well. Yes, there is a shrinkage crack at the top of the front. Well, s___t happens over 130- 140 years. Doesn't bother me 1 bit. Nice original finish, intact top, nice dial.

    This clock's movement also has the pendulum suspension with a coiled spring like the alarm version. Here they are together. The subject clock is in the center:

    jerome miniature time pieces and alarm.JPG jerome miniature time pieces and alarm 2.JPG

    What really caught my eye on the timepiece and what I have not seen before is that a portion of a label has survived:

    jerome miniature time pieces and alarm 4.JPG

    I thought that it was worth recording for posterity as I have not seen one before? As best I could, I transcribed the fragment:

    .....Piece*
    [illegible] Spring Pendulum Rod
    ...TED** FOR ACCURACY AND DEPENDABILITY
    Jerome & Co.


    *Time Piece?
    **Warranted?

    I have a Reed's Tonic shelf clock where the original movement also has that "spring suspension rod".

    Couldn't find a patent for the spring pendulum rod.

    I'm in a superfluous mood.

    This week someone posted a reverse painted sign. I thought I would post some of the signs that I like.

    Here's a bunch from a booth I had at antique show some years ago:

    signs.JPG

    The blacksmith sign is double sided. Dig the sign for turtle meat using a real turtle shell! All have gone up the dealer food chain. They represent a fraction of the hand painted trade signs I have handled over the past few years. Some of the ones I couldn't find pix of were better! But there's one that's a favorite that I have declined to sell multiple times. Not because it's the most impressive or valuable, but it's the history it lead me to discover.

    solovich sign 1.JPG

    I found this in a now defunct group shop. It is a sign on wood produced by the Ithaca Sign Company. Much manufacturing occurred in Ithaca, NY. Not just calendar clocks.

    The name grabbed me. Not the typical type of ethnic name one would expect to find on a trade sign from early 20th century ME. Could it be? Yes it was as revealed by my research.

    There was a small but tight knit Eastern European Jewish Immigrant community. Rather than staying in the typical large East Coast urban centers (e.g., NYC, Brooklyn, Chelsea, Boston, etc.), some hardy souls braved the wilds of ME in the late 19th - early 20th century to seek their fortunes.

    Someplace I have a picture of the Solovich Brothers in their shop standing in front of a table of hats and gloves sent to me by their great niece. Word spread rather quickly about this sign and it generated quite a bit of interest. See this:

    solovich sign shop.jpg
    Here is an clip from the Bath Jewish History web site. See the pic of Joseph himself.

    This all lead to a request from the Maine State Museum to place it on loan for a year for an exhibit:

    Maine + Jewish: Two Centuries - Maine State Museum

    It was also included in a guide of the exhibit published by Colby College:

    http://web.colby.edu/jewsinmaine/files/2018/10/MSM-Maine-Jewish-Exhibition-Handbook.pdf

    Scroll down to page 12.

    It's not just about date and ID.

    RM.
     
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  2. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Someone just informed me of this SOLD listing that I was not aware of:

    Jerome & Co Rare Miniature Salesman Sample Parlor/Kitchen Clock- Moving Pendulum | eBay

    Yikes!

    Salesman's sample? Nyet.

    And basically a fragment to boot.

    Best thing about this listing is that it shows the movement and suspension spring clearly.

    Another feature I forgot is that solid escape anchor and unspoked escape wheel that is between the plates. Reminds me a bit of some SB Terry movements?

    By the way, it is claimed that the movement was recently serviced? Looks filthy and had some oil dumped on it.

    RM
     
  3. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    Very interesting post - both the clock and the historical aspects. Hopefully someone can add detail (date, #, inventor, etc) on the suspension patent.
     
  4. lpbp

    lpbp Registered User
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    I have this clock, and it's marked Jerome, I believe it's called a helical suspension spring.
     
  5. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    A picture of the suspension spring would be of interest.
     
  6. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    It would be like on this one.

    Reliable Mvmt Front.JPG
     
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  7. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    #7 rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, Jul 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
    Thanks. I hope so, too.

    Thanks for the info.

    Yes, it's a Jerome & Co. as indicated by the monogram on the dial and the remnants of a label that also so states. See photo above.

    On that label, there is a part of word before "Spring Pendulum Rod" that I cannot make out. Doesn't look like the word "helical". I would ask folks to take a look at the label and see if they can make out that word.

    By the way, this is the first label I've seen on one of these. Haven't seen one published before, either? Anyone know of an example with a more complete label??

    Of course. That's why I included this link in posting # 2:

    Jerome & Co Rare Miniature Salesman Sample Parlor/Kitchen Clock- Moving Pendulum | eBay

    It's a completed eBay listing of a fragment clock. As mentioned, it includes multiple pix of the movement which I cannot use without permission. However, it's good that someone posted a pic of the movement as this link will go "bad" after not too long and those pix will be lost.

    RM
     
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  8. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Getting back to an earlier point. See the movement that SBT used in his miniature iron front alarm timepieces with his Terryville Label:

    terry miniature iron front 1.JPG terry miniature iron front 3.JPG Terry miniature iron front 2.JPG

    Compare this to the pictures of the movement in the Jerome timepiece included in the eBay link.

    Clearly not identical, but can't help seeing some similarities, including the way the verge anchor is mounted to basically a tube and the way that is suspended. Also, using a spring pendulum rod seems kind of like something SBT would think of?

    RM
     
  9. PatH

    PatH Registered User
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    There are a lot of pics in the ebay listing. Several different views can be seen if you scroll through all.
     
  10. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Post # 99 in our Kroeber thread discusses a clock having another Terry movement with essentially the same verge, escapement, and pendulum setup. The movement carries a December 1, 1868, patent date. The referenced patent is attached below. It seems to cover the complete setup, though admittedly my command of patentese is not what it could/should be.

    US84517.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  11. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    Interesting to see the spring which I missed. Is there a supposed benefit to it?
     
  12. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Since the clock winds from the back and would be picked up and turned around daily, this type of spring would seem less likely to be damaged. Just my take, however.
     
  13. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
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    #13 Jerome collector, Jul 26, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
    In RM's original post, he shows two mini Jerome & Co. timepieces. The one on the left is illustrated in Tran Duy Ly's book on the New Haven Clock Co. and is identified as the "Reliable" (from the 1880 catalog). There's another one that is identified amusingly as the "No Name", which I suspect may have the same movement. I wasn't able to find an example of the fancier one that RM has. Although the catalog image isn't high resolution, the maker's logo on the dial appears to be the same as the one on RM's examples, which show the interlocking J & Co., signifying the trade name "Jerome & Co." used by New Haven.

    The possible connection to S.B. Terry is interesting. Chauncey Jerome's 1852 catalog has one model in it that is identified as an "S. B. T 30 Hour Time Piece", which Chris Bailey attributes to S.B. Terry. That date would be too early for the patented version shown above by Steven. The 1853 catalog no longer carries this model. Given how intertwined the New Haven Clock Co. and the Jerome Manufacturing Co. were prior to Jerome's bankruptcy, I suppose it's conceivable New Haven might have maintained some connection to Terry. Although I haven't gone through Tran's New Haven book in detail, I don't recall any instances of New Haven crediting Terry for complete movements or for use of Terry's patent.

    Incidentally, I sent a message to the seller of the clock on eBay (the Reliable, minus its crest), shortly after it was first listed, letting him/her know that it was a New Haven production model, not a "Rare Miniature Salesman Sample", and also mentioning that it was missing the crest. Was I surprised that the listing was never modified (despite the item being listed more than once) to correct the record? Not really.

    Mike
    Reliable.jpeg
     
  14. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Just a minor point FWIW. Book 2 of Roy Erhardt's Clock Identification and Price Guide shows the "No Name" on page 95, where it is identified as the Solo.
     
  15. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Some interesting information has been presented and thanks to you all.

    Mike,

    I don't know how I missed that in Tran's book! Thanks for scanning and including that!

    Funny you should mention the "No Name". It jogged my memory and I recalled that a long time ago I had purchased one with the case in pieces. I had never bothered to put it together. Really just glue and clamps. It sent me rummaging through some drawers I hadn't opened in a long time and eureka, I found it.

    Here's the dial, works and backboard:

    jerome no name 1.JPG

    Same basic type of printed paper dial applied to a sheet of tin. No monogram.

    jerome no name 2.JPG jerome no name 3.JPG jerome no name 4.JPG

    Note, however, a very different suspension! This was patented in 1880 by S.B. Jerome:

    s.b. jerome pendulum patent.png

    By the way, I found a wonderful searchable patent database. The name not withstanding, this database has a ton of clock stuff:

    Pocket Watch Patents Archive | Pocket Watch Database

    And yes, if I get the case back together, I will post pix of the clock.

    The patent info is most illuminating. I believe that this is an example of Kroeber marketing clocks made by others sometimes I believe often under his own name. He did that with both foreign and domestically made ones.

    Definitely having to wind & set the alarm versions from the back would be a pain. Not sure that using a coiled spring would make that better? Also, they used the same feature in the time piece versions where it would have no advantage.

    Same problem with the first Estelle patent clocks which were shelf clocks set from behind. And that took some time to do!

    What would have made much more sense was a lever movement +/- alarm.

    RM
     
  16. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    #16 Steven Thornberry, Jul 26, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
    Thanks for that.

    It is good. I have used that website since I began filling up my empty spaces with American pocket watches. It makes up for the patent site that used to be accessible through nawcc.org
     
  17. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
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    Interesting that there's a connection to S.B. Jerome. Also interesting that two clocks, made around the same time, having essentially identical characteristics (9 1/4" tall, time only or time w/alarm), have very different movements. One movement possibly having Terry patent (dated 1869) features and the other S.B. Jerome (1880). Makes me wonder if perhaps the Terry patent Reliable is slightly older than the Jerome patent No Name. I need to dig through my archives to find out whether Jerome assigned the patent to New Haven. Seems to me some of his later patents were assigned to them.
    Mike
     
  18. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Actually, when I compare the movement in the Reliable with that in the No Name, I think the only difference is the pendulum rod.

    I wonder if SBJ designed both?

    Is there any known connection between SBT and SBJ or Jerome and Co? As an example, he worked for Gilbert, hence the Gilbert clocks with "ladder" movements.

    RM
     
  19. Jeremy Woodoff

    Jeremy Woodoff Registered User
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    Jerome dial edited complete (2) (1).jpg I also have a "Reliable," time-only model. It has no hint of the label and is missing the top crest. I have some walnut and some day I may try to carve a replacement. What I can make out of the label pictured is "WARRANTED FOR ACCURACY AND DURABILITY." The "durability" is unusual and leads me to think it refers to the coiled suspension spring, which would be much more durable with the clock being handled daily for winding. The first word of the line that includes "Spring Pendulum Rod" may end in the letters "ed," but that's all I can make out.

    My clock had a badly stained and faded dial, so I spent quite a while fixing it with a photoshop program. This is the result, printed on white paper. It can be easily mounted over an existing dial without damaging it, using the two pins holding the dial plate to the case. A close view leaves no doubt that it is a modern reproduction, but from a little distance the appearance of the clock is much improved, without damaging anything original. I'd be happy to send the file to anyone who would like it.

    View attachment 602529 View attachment 602530 Jerome dial edited complete (2) (1).jpg
     
  20. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    I agree, it is "Durability," and not "Dependability."
     
  21. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    #21 Steven Thornberry, Jul 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
    SBJ assigned the 1880 patent above to "Jerome & Co." (note it does not say "New Haven Clock Co." Maybe just a technicality?). Here is the full document. The fourth paragraph discussing suspension springs, i.a., is interesting. An attempt to improve on SBT's patent?

    US230283 Pendulum Suspension.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  22. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    I wonder if that word ending in "ed" was patented? Sometimes that word was used loosely. Haven't been able to find a patent.

    I went back and took a look and you are absolutely correct. It says durability. Not sure the spring is more durable than the flat spring.

    Are those before and after pics of the dial?

    Maybe?

    RM
     
  23. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    #23 Steven Thornberry, Jul 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
    You speak in riddles, sir. I suppose my question is why not use New Haven Clock Co.? BTW, I found another SBJ patent (US240142, for a clock case, dates April 12, 1881) also assigned to Jerome & Co. Just wondering. All right, I was interrupted and hit the post button prematurely. Perhaps it was an attempt to ensure that the patents were associated with the Jerome name rather than the New Haven name. Perhaps it somehow ties in with this discussion by Mike Bailey a few months back.
     
  24. Jeremy Woodoff

    Jeremy Woodoff Registered User
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    #24 Jeremy Woodoff, Jul 27, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2020
    I didn't intend to post two images. They are essentially the same but may have been saved in different sizes, or perhaps one was slightly lightened.

    This is the "before" picture of the dial:
    Jerome dial045 reduced.jpg

    I don't know why the MB keeps posting two copies and then why I can't edit one out.
     
  25. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Honestly, it's in the kind of condition I would expect...doesn't look so bad to me.

    RM
     
  26. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    It's just that we like you twice as much as anyone else. It's also to make sure the moderators have enough to do in these challenging times. Nonetheless, I have removed one copy.
     
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  27. Jeremy Woodoff

    Jeremy Woodoff Registered User
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    In the clock, I found that the dial was barely legible. I wouldn't discard or permanently damage a dial in that condition, but I took the opportunity to improve the clock's appearance in a reversible way. My day job is in the field of historic preservation, and I'm aware of the importance of retaining historic materials and the appearance of age. But I also lean towards the view that things should look reasonably like they were designed to look. Where the patina of age ends and dirt and poor maintenance begin can be endlessly debated and in some cases is probably an unanswerable question.

    I could resolve the issue by buying clocks only in pristine condition, or at least condition I find completely acceptable. But I have always looked for bargains and clocks to "rescue" and I like the challenge of making appropriate improvements, so I am perpetually needing to answer the question of how far to go in restoration.
     
  28. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Though this link has previously been provided, thought it might be of interest:

    Log In

    A nice summary article about SBT by none other than Chris Bailey.

    The article begins with entries from a fictitious journal kept by SBT that Mr. Bailey created.

    Talks about his time with Gilbert, the movement he created for ST, and so on.

    RM
     
  29. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Can someone please tell me why a link to an Bulletin articles says "log in"??

    RM
     
  30. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    The second post in the following thread comes as close as any to providing an explanation.

    Links to Bulletin Articles
     
  31. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Needs to be rectified.

    This is confusing.

    RM
     
  32. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Here's a picture of the Jerome "No Name" reassembled.

    jerome no name.JPG

    The front and base of the clock are faux grained over a thin layer of gesso. This is rather prone to chipping. So considering I got the case in pieces, it actually came together pretty good.

    Details of the movement are pictured above along with the S.B. Jerome patent for the pendulum rod.

    Don't have the proper pendulum bob. It would be identical to the one in the Reliable and its so far unnamed sister clock.

    RM
     

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