Jefferson Golden Helm motor

[bonusbuilt1950]

I have a Jefferson Golden Helm clock and when plugged in, the motor hums, but the gear that runs the ring and glass does not move. I am curious to know how the gear is removed from the motor? I know there's gear reduction under the cover. Does anyone know of a replacement motor on the Helm? Timesavers list a motor for the Golden hour, but does not say whether it will work on a Helm. I believe the gear tooth count is different. I did find a possible source for motors, but it goes by shaft size, length, voltage, amps, etc... I've looked for cross references to motor numbers, no luck.

 

[J. A. Olson]

They did not use the same motor.
This website has lots of information:

Jefferson Golden Helm

 

[skruft]

I think it is the same motor as the Golden Minute.

 

[Ralph]

Check this thread. I showed or told how to open the motor up. It's quite easy. You can then clean and lube the gears.

Golden Visionette

Ralph

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

They did not use the same motor.
This website has lots of information:

Jefferson Golden Helm

I am reading stuff on his website. Quite informative. I am going to take the motor apart to see what is inside. There are some new motors offered out there with the same specs, but they do not come with the outer gear. I would like to know how to get the gear off without ruining the old motor. I am going to try to clean it out and see.

 

[Berkshire Vet]

The Golden Minute, Golden Helm and Golden View models all used the same motor. They have a different tooth count on the final drive gear. Timesavers does not have these motors in stock. The only choice is to acquire one that is working or attempt to get into what you have and clean the internal gears that will be gummy with the lubricant from years of use. I have a number of these motors, but I don't believe any of them are running presently. My plan with these are to experiment with cleaning them ultrasonically.

Cheers and Good Luck
Bugsy's Dad

 

[TQ60]

These are very old motors, and as such, the Grease dries out.

Open up, clean and new grease.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

The Golden Minute, Golden Helm and Golden View models all used the same motor. They have a different tooth count on the final drive gear. Timesavers does not have these motors in stock. The only choice is to acquire one that is working or attempt to get into what you have and clean the internal gears that will be gummy with the lubricant from years of use. I have a number of these motors, but I don't believe any of them are running presently. My plan with these are to experiment with cleaning them ultrasonically.

Cheers and Good Luck
Bugsy's Dad

I took 3 apart tonight and looked at the gear train under the cover. The helm one was different from the golden hour 2 that I have. If I could find a good motor, most likely I could change out the gears and the cover with the big gear. The gear on the motor shaft appears to be the same. All 3 were clean inside except for the gum on the shafts the gears turn on. They were actually oily inside. One tried to spin, but got a quarter turn and stopped. There is some up and down movement in the shaft on all of them.
I found a company that sells motors like these in all sorts of ratings. I know these are 110V, 60C, 3 amp, 1 RPM. I am not sure which way they turn, CW or CCW. Hansen Sychron Motors is the company. On the net. They had quite the selection. They run around $55.

 

[Berkshire Vet]

From what I've seen, Jefferson used motors from a number of different manufacturers over their production runs. I think I've seen 5 or 6 different motors in my work. I believe they are all CW movers (viewed from the top cover). You might very well find some success at cleaning out the old lube and replacing it with a synthetic clock oil. I would carefully inspect every gear for missing or damaged teeth. The units that turn for a bit and then stop are almost always missing teeth somewhere in the train.

 

[TQ60]

On the other side is the rotor.

It has very little power so almost noting can stop them.

Plug it in with all of the gears out and see what it does.

If you put a drop of alcohol next to the gear where it can get into the shaft, you will likely see it go faster.

Carefully clean ALL of the oily stuff out then apply some proper stuff back in.

Synthetic motor oil works very well, but not sure what is used on these for long term, maybe a Grease, others may know.

There is a telechron web page, maybe lubrication is indicated there.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

I have 2 motors that will run if you push the center shaft down towards the case and they will run and turn all the little gears. You push down on the little gear side. You can see the little gear in the last pic above. The center shaft feels like it is spring loaded because when you let off on the shaft it pops out and there's 1/8-3/16 space under the little gear. I have never taken one of these apart to see how they're put together. Maybe a shim that would of taken up that space has worn down, allowing the shaft and gear to shift and cause the motor not to run? Curious.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

You can see in the second pic the space under that gear and how it barely touches the little plastic gear. If you push it down, it engages the plastic gear better.

 

[Berkshire Vet]

I think I know which type of motor these are. Just to be certain we're talking about the same clock drive. Is this for a Haddon or a Jefferson?

Unfortunately, the pics you sent, didn't make it through the intertubewebnets. I need to see the cover of these especially. If they are the type I suspect, I've had no luck trying to get them working. The little gear attached to the motor shaft is nylon, and they didn't hold up well over time, with the constant heat of running and the lubricant (it's some type of grease) becoming hardened onto all the other gears, as well as this one. I did see a solution some time ago, involving adding a shim and another fix recommending taking off that gear and flipping it upside down, then pressing it back onto the motor shaft. This would have it engage at a different place on the first large gear. I haven't had any luck with getting that rascal off of the motor shaft intact. Apparently (to me) the constant heat of running, anneals the nylon, that hardens it around the motor shaft. Every time I've tried to pull it off, the gear breaks completely. Resend the pics and I'll take a look at them for ya'.

Mark @ Bugsy's Dad Ent.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

It is for a Jefferson clock. I am surprised the pics don't show up. I can see them fine in the thread. I will post them again.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

Hopefully the pics came thru again. The WB 740 is the Golden Helm and the WB 1480 is the Golden hour. I also have one made by International? from a Golden hour.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

The Golden Minute, Golden Helm and Golden View models all used the same motor. They have a different tooth count on the final drive gear. Timesavers does not have these motors in stock. The only choice is to acquire one that is working or attempt to get into what you have and clean the internal gears that will be gummy with the lubricant from years of use. I have a number of these motors, but I don't believe any of them are running presently. My plan with these are to experiment with cleaning them ultrasonically.

Cheers and Good Luck
Bugsy's Dad

Timesavers has the Golden hour motors in stock. Talked to them today. I would have to swap the gears from the helm motor into the Hour motor, plus change the outside brass gear. I think I am goi ng to experiment with one of the old golden hour motors I have. Can't get any worse than what I have now. If I buy a new motor and do this , warranty on it is void.

 

[bonusbuilt1950]

I did swap the gears out and they don't work. They have a couple in there all mesh except one which is smaller. So, the motors are not interchangeable. One of the pivot mounting pins must off slightly. I did find someone who has motors for the Helm, but it has to use a shim under the mounting screws, as the gear shaft is longer. the motor hanger lower. He gets $78 plus shipping.