Jauch westminister strike problem

[CJo]

I need help and advice. I had set the strike up as would normally. But for some reason it does not stop correctly on the gathering pallet, which then causes it to not strike the hourly but every other time. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I could possibly post a video if needed.

 

[tracerjack]

Is there a hammer lifted when the GP stops incorrectly? If so, then I would think you have a power loss problem. Just my guess since you didn’t give much detail about what is happening other than the GP stops before it should.

 

[J. A. Olson]

These Erhard Jauch movements were always finicky for power transmission, even when new.
They are also prone to excess wear which hampers them from operating reliably, even compared to other movements of the period.
The pinned stop wheels and gathering pallet must be perfectly aligned to work, otherwise it will skip.
It was typical to assemble these movements with jigs at the factory, which made for easier alignment on a mass production schedule.

You will probably have to disassemble and reassemble the movement a few times over to get the right alignment.
Some movements had shorter pivots on the upper wheels, allowing one to keep the plates open enough to align everything correctly.

 

[CJo]

Is there a hammer lifted when the GP stops incorrectly? If so, then I would think you have a power loss problem. Just my guess since you didn’t give much detail about what is happening other than the GP stops before it should.

Thank you for your response. No there is no lifting on the hammers. Always stops right, with space and no touching.

 

[Willie X]

Find out what's making it stop and report back ... There's nothing unusual about these movements. Willie X

 

[CJo]

There isn’t anything stopping it except the pinned stop wheel.
I spent some time getting everything lined up but the pinned stop wheel does not make a full round before stopping short.
Tried posting a video, but it wouldn’t open.

 

[tracerjack]

Then I would think Post#3 is the answer, that the alignment of the pinned wheel and the GP needs adjusting, which might take you several tries to get right.

 

[CJo]

Ok, I will give that another try

 

[CJo]

Readjusted it several times. I have a plate splitter so that helps, but still getting the same results. I don’t like to give up, but it seems like there’s something going on that I am not finding that is causing this issue.

 

[tracerjack]

This thread seems to be about the same problem you are having Jauch 77 Gathering Pallet
From reading that thread, it appears the GP does not have to stop up against the rack hook pin, just near it. There should be enough lift on the rack hook during the strike that the cut edge on the GP doesn't catch on the rack hook pin. Perhaps a bushings is needed somewhere?

 

[CJo]

This thread seems to be about the same problem you are having Jauch 77 Gathering Pallet
From reading that thread, it appears the GP does not have to stop up against the rack hook pin, just near it. There should be enough lift on the rack hook during the strike that the cut edge on the GP doesn't catch on the rack hook pin. Perhaps a bushings is needed somewhere?

Okay, I will check that out. As far as bushings, I did already bush s-2,3, and 4, pinion sides.

 

[shutterbug]

I can't remember on yours whether the hammers are lifted with a star wheel. If they are, often those wheels are friction fit and can be forced to turn a little (screwdriver against a post for leverage). You need it to stop as the hammer is falling. Also check your snail position.

 

[CJo]

There is another problem that I was going to try and address after I got the strike figured out, but after reading other posts, I’m thinking the other problem could be tied into the strike problem. Once the chime lever reaches the peak of the chime cam, it is not high enough to allow the rack to drop on the snail. So if it strikes, it’s only one strike.

In warning, before chiming.

Position now at where it should drop rack on snail, but doesn’t go high enough to do it. So is that a chime cam wear problem or something else? I appreciate any and all thoughts on this.

 

[tracerjack]

You are certainly not getting enough lift. I would expect wear on the front plate pivot hole for the chime cam as opposed to wear on the cam itself.

 

[Mike Phelan]

Position now at where it should drop rack on snail, but doesn’t go high enough to do it. So is that a chime cam wear problem or something else? I appreciate any and all thoughts on this.

I've not gone into your posts in detail, but as with most chiming clocks from this era, what should happen is that the rack falls because of the raised lift on the count wheel during the hour chime, not because of the raiswd hour lobe on the cannon pinion, which is only there to give chime correction..
Something is worn.

 

[shutterbug]

Check your center arbor hole on the front plate. They wear downward because of the pressure of lifting levers. If there is movement up and down there, you'll need to bush it. As it wears downward, the lift becomes less and less.

 

[CJo]

Check your center arbor hole on the front plate. They wear downward because of the pressure of lifting levers. If there is movement up and down there, you'll need to bush it. As it wears downward, the lift becomes less and less.

C-1, 2, & 3 were all bushed on that train.

 

[shutterbug]

I mean the minute arbor. That's where the pressure happens

 

[CJo]

The problem is solved. only a crazy person would spend as much time trying to figure this out as I did. But I got lots of time on my hands. The chime lever end that catches the warning/stop pin for the strike was bent, and causing the lever to not lift high enough to drop the rack on the snail. All seems to be functioning as it should at this point. I really appreciate all your help and advice!

 

[Mike Phelan]

So, the pin engaging the count wheel was bent and not lifting the rack hook enough?

 

[tracerjack]

So, the pin engaging the count wheel was bent and not lifting the rack hook enough?

Sounded to me like the end of the long lever tip was bent.

 

[wow]

I have read several posts in this thread and got more confused as I read. Terminology is important. There is no count wheel on this movement. There is a chime cam and a snail and a rack.

Sounded to me like the end of the long lever tip was bent.

Evidently the little detent on the end of the long lever that catches the pin on the warn wheel was bent enough that it wasn’t catching the pin. Now that it is bent back to normal it works fine. Is that right?

 

[tracerjack]

I have read several posts in this thread and got more confused as I read. Terminology is important. There is no count wheel on this movement. There is a chime cam and a snail and a rack.
Evidently the little detent on the end of the long lever that catches the pin on the warn wheel was bent enough that it wasn’t catching the pin. Now that it is bent back to normal it works fine. Is that right?

I took it to mean that the tip of the long lever was bent downward so that it didn't lift the rack hook high enough to release the rack. Once straightened, it lifted high enough. Mentioned in Post #13 that the rack hook wasn't lifted high enough to release the rack.

 

[Mike Phelan]

I have read several posts in this thread and got more confused as I read. Terminology is important. There is no count wheel on this movement. There is a chime cam and a snail and a rack.

I think this is just a terminology thing, Will. Probably a difference from either side of the pond, but sometimes even differences here. I call the thing on the second wheel on the chime train a count wheel - the thing with the four notches. Not sure what you call it over there.
Some over here (even De Carle) call them locking plates even though they don't lock anything! Racks and snails are all over the world

 

[CJo]

The very end of the long lever that releases the strike was bent. Sorry if I confused some, maybe my terminology wasn’t quite right.

 

[tracerjack]

You got it going; that's all that matters.