Jauch PL 96 5 tube only chimes hour cycle

[Naif Baidoon]

I am trying to get a Jauch PL 96 movement working. It is a 5 tube movement but I have left off the drum roll and gear off while trying to get it working. It only chimes on the hour. There is not enough lift on the three other quarters to start it chiming. If I give it some help with my finger it will run to chime like it would on the hour. It will not stop on the quarter it runs right through it.
I can't figure out where the stop is for the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd quarter hour is. If I look from the side of the movement I can see where there is a notch on a drum for the hour for a stop to rest on but nothing for the quarter hour.
I do not know where to look to solve the issue.

 

[Willie X]

Your clock is probably in need of some serious bushing work.

The prime suspects for your movement's problem would be both ends of the minute hand shaft and the bushing behind the chime sequencer disc. Just wiggle them. Any wiggle (?) thar's yer problem, or at least some of your problem.

Willie X

 

[shutterbug]

Does it chime every hour? Just the quarter hour chimes at that time except for every fourth hour?

 

[Allan Wolff]

It looks like the chime locking lever is not dropping. In the second photo (IMG_1187) the pin is not dropping down into the slot of the chime cam (the smaller cam with one slot.) This means that the chime correction lever is the only lever that is stopping the chime. The chime locking lever is either set too high or it is gummed up or rubbing on something and gravity is not able to pull it down enough to stop the chime on the quarters. the chime locking lever is the one closest to the front plate.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

It looks like the chime locking lever is not dropping. In the second photo (IMG_1187) the pin is not dropping down into the slot of the chime cam (the smaller cam with one slot.) This means that the chime correction lever is the only lever that is stopping the chime. The chime locking lever is either set too high or it is gummed up or rubbing on something and gravity is not able to pull it down enough to stop the chime on the quarters. the chime locking lever is the one closest to the front plate.

I know its not gummed up. I took the movement apart and cleaned it. For sure the pin is not dropping down far enough. I have to look into how to adjust that locking lever.
Thanks for the tip.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

Does it chime every hour? Just the quarter hour chimes at that time except for every fourth hour?

It only chimes on the hour.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

Your clock is probably in need of some serious bushing work.

The prime suspects for your movement's problem would be both ends of the minute hand shaft and the bushing behind the chime sequencer disc. Just wiggle them. Any wiggle (?) thar's yer problem, or at least some of your problem.

Willie X

I did all the bushings on the time train except for the minute hand. The gears on the arbor are like I have never seen before and it has the lifting gear on the outside which I suspect is going to need to be heated to get off. I am going to make messing with this my last resort to correct the problem. There really is not much wiggle room on the minute arbor. The bushings for the big chime came were done already.
Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

It only chimes on the hour.

Every hour.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

I found the issue, behind the large chime locking plate their is another locking wheel. It is a matter of finding the right combination of the two to get the clock chiming correctly.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

Well, I am close but really do not know what to do next. Here is the situation. After trying various positions with the chime locking plate and the hub that is behind it I was able to arrive at this scenario. On the first quarter it will have plenty of lift but the chime hook will not release. Move the hand to the half it will release the chime hook and it will rest on the first quarter on the the chime locking plate. Move the hand to the 3/4 and it will skip the 2nd stop on the chime locking plate and rest on the 3/4 stop on the chime locking plate. Move the hand to the hour and every thing runs correctly.
In one instance I had it where it would not lift high enough to release the hook on the first quarter but on the second quarter it would release the hook but skip the first stop on the chime locking plate and rest on the second stop on the plate. The third and fourth quarters would then run correctly.
I am interested in what your responses are going to be to this scenario.

 

[Allan Wolff]

It looks like there is still a timing issue. Let's try these steps to get the chime in sync.
1. The star cam on the minute arbor has one lobe that is higher than the others. Turn the minute hand while observing the chime levers. Note that at one quarter, the lever will lift higher than the other 3 quarters. After the lever drops off of this higher lobe, stop turning the minute hand. Place the minute hand so it points to 12. (in your video, it looks like it is pointing at 6).
2. Turn the minute hand so it points to 9 and the chime levers drop. Don't move the hand again.
3. Lift the chime lever to release the chime train. Let it run until the pin on the chime correction lever drops into the slot on the chime correction cam. This is the cam that is between the plates. The cam is held by a tension washer, so it can be turned if the pin does not drop into the center of the slot.
4. Adjust the chime locking plate (the large cam on the front with 4 slots, one for each quarter.) so the pin drops into the center of the 3rd slot. Snug the set screw but don't tighten it fully just yet.
5. Verify that the pin is in the slot of the chime cam. If it is not, remove and reposition the cam.
6. Move the minute hand to 12 and verify the chime runs for 4 counts and then the strike train runs.
7. Verify that the chime train runs at all of the other quarters.
8. When the chime train runs consistently at all 4 quarters, it is now time to test the chime correction lever. Throw the chime out of sequence by triggering the chime lever without moving the hand. Now, turn the minute hand and observe that the chime train runs at each quarter until it gets to the 3rd quarter. At this point, only the higher lobe on the star cam will lift the chime levers high enough to disengage the chime correction lever. If any of the smaller lobes lift the correction lever, or the high lobe does not lift the correction lever high enough for the chime to run, additional adjustments to the chime levers are needed.
9. Fully tighten the set screw on the chime locking plate, making sure the plate doesn't move while tightening the screw.

I hope this helps.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

It looks like there is still a timing issue. Let's try these steps to get the chime in sync.
1. The star cam on the minute arbor has one lobe that is higher than the others. Turn the minute hand while observing the chime levers. Note that at one quarter, the lever will lift higher than the other 3 quarters. After the lever drops off of this higher lobe, stop turning the minute hand. Place the minute hand so it points to 12. (in your video, it looks like it is pointing at 6).
2. Turn the minute hand so it points to 9 and the chime levers drop. Don't move the hand again.
3. Lift the chime lever to release the chime train. Let it run until the pin on the chime correction lever drops into the slot on the chime correction cam. This is the cam that is between the plates. The cam is held by a tension washer, so it can be turned if the pin does not drop into the center of the slot.
4. Adjust the chime locking plate (the large cam on the front with 4 slots, one for each quarter.) so the pin drops into the center of the 3rd slot. Snug the set screw but don't tighten it fully just yet.
5. Verify that the pin is in the slot of the chime cam. If it is not, remove and reposition the cam.
6. Move the minute hand to 12 and verify the chime runs for 4 counts and then the strike train runs.
7. Verify that the chime train runs at all of the other quarters.
8. When the chime train runs consistently at all 4 quarters, it is now time to test the chime correction lever. Throw the chime out of sequence by triggering the chime lever without moving the hand. Now, turn the minute hand and observe that the chime train runs at each quarter until it gets to the 3rd quarter. At this point, only the higher lobe on the star cam will lift the chime levers high enough to disengage the chime correction lever. If any of the smaller lobes lift the correction lever, or the high lobe does not lift the correction lever high enough for the chime to run, additional adjustments to the chime levers are needed.
9. Fully tighten the set screw on the chime locking plate, making sure the plate doesn't move while tightening the screw.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the detailed response. I printed it off and I started a file to keep such helpful information handy.
Its chiming properly now but I have another issue I hope you can help me with. The hourly hand has no friction on it. I am wondering if something is missing, would appreciate it very much if you could give your opinion on it. Please check the video below.

 

[Ken X]

Is it possible the reduction wheel assembly on the right hand stub arbour is on back to front?

The hour wheel seems to be spinning freely and there appears to be a small wheel behind the large wheel on the stub arbour which may engage with it. The large wheel looks to be at the centre of the arbour so its relative position would remain unchanged when reversed.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

Is it possible the reduction wheel assembly on the right hand stub arbour is on back to front?

The hour wheel seems to be spinning freely and there appears to be a small wheel behind the large wheel on the stub arbour which may engage with it. The large wheel looks to be at the centre of the arbour so its relative position would remain unchanged when reversed.

That was it. I should have picked that up but I didn't. I feel pretty dumb for not seeing that. Thanks a bunch for letting me know.

 

[Ken X]

That was it. I should have picked that up but I didn't. I feel pretty dumb for not seeing that. Thanks a bunch for letting me know.

Hey, you are talking to a rank amateur here. Pleased it worked out

I have regularly had a clock in bits more than once trying to sync up all the bits.

My plan is to photograph the hell out of a mechanism and hope I photo'd the area I am rebuilding with a useful view.

I also photo sub assemblies as I strip them to show the order of the links, washers etc. I keep a logbook of every clock showing the position of all the wheels, noting which bushes need attention and dimensions thereof.

Takes me some time but, very fortunately, I am not having to make money out of it. Apparently I am doing it for fun.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

Hey, you are talking to a rank amateur here. Pleased it worked out

I have regularly had a clock in bits more than once trying to sync up all the bits.

My plan is to photograph the hell out of a mechanism and hope I photo'd the area I am rebuilding with a useful view.

I also photo sub assemblies as I strip them to show the order of the links, washers etc. I keep a logbook of every clock showing the position of all the wheels, noting which bushes need attention and dimensions thereof.

Takes me some time but, very fortunately, I am not having to make money out of it. Apparently I am doing it for fun.

Thanks for sharing the process your using. I need to do more of what your doing.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

When I fix one problem I often create or find another. I see two additional problems but I think I should try to solve one at a time. I put the chime hammer rack on and discovered the strike hammer lifter has no tension on it to spring back into position. It looks to me like it is missing a spring or a screw to hold the pinion in place. The pivot at the end of the pinion does not have a grove in it to hold a e-clip so it must be held in place by some other means. On the lifter there is a small hole on the little black plate that sits on the front of the movement plate. On the inside of the movement plate you can see there is a half circle grove in the movement plate where I suspect that something was riding inside of that plate.I hope with these pictures you can see what I am talking about. I hope someone has an answer to this puzzle.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

When I fix one problem I often create or find another. I see two additional problems but I think I should try to solve one at a time. I put the chime hammer rack on and discovered the strike hammer lifter has no tension on it to spring back into position. It looks to me like it is missing a spring or a screw to hold the pinion in place. The pivot at the end of the pinion does not have a grove in it to hold a e-clip so it must be held in place by some other means. On the lifter there is a small hole on the little black plate that sits on the front of the movement plate. On the inside of the movement plate you can see there is a half circle grove in the movement plate where I suspect that something was riding inside of that plate.I hope with these pictures you can see what I am talking about. I hope someone has an answer to this puzzle.

 

[Ken X]

I'm going to have another guess.

Is the brass lever mounted on the pinion between the plates symmetrical? If so, it could be put on the pinion the other way round. Then the extension tube on this lever would then be very close to the side plate. If it was adjusted so as to provide a fag papers clearance to the side plate it would retain the pinion in position and have a small clearance so as not to impede rotation of the pinion.

As to the lack of springing I have no idea having never seen one of these movements. The hole the black plate could be a spring termination but I am really flying a kite now. Hope somebody familiar with this movement can help out.

 

[shutterbug]

You didn't answer my question above. WHAT does it chime on the hour?

 

[Naif Baidoon]

You didn't answer my question above. WHAT does it chime on the hour?

Sorry, I don't know what happen. I thought I did. However after working on the chimes to get them right which they now appear to be right the strike will not stop running.
The chime train is properly running and locking on the its four locations on the locking plate. On the hour the chimes run and then the strike is released and it does not stop running.
I don't have the bells hung up yet to hear if the notes are correct. On this movement the star wheel does not a-pear to be a friction fit but I will try to adjust it a little to see if that will help. I hope I answered your question this time. Sorry if I am not getting what your asking.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

Seems to be w

Sorry, I don't know what happen. I thought I did. However after working on the chimes to get them right which they now appear to be right the strike will not stop running.
The chime train is properly running and locking on the its four locations on the locking plate. On the hour the chimes run and then the strike is released and it does not stop running.
I don't have the bells hung up yet to hear if the notes are correct. On this movement the star wheel does not a-pear to be a friction fit but I will try to adjust it a little to see if that will help. I hope I answered your question this time. Sorry if I am not getting what your asking.

Seems to be working now. Its ugly but its working.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

I'm going to have another guess.

Is the brass lever mounted on the pinion between the plates symmetrical? If so, it could be put on the pinion the other way round. Then the extension tube on this lever would then be very close to the side plate. If it was adjusted so as to provide a fag papers clearance to the side plate it would retain the pinion in position and have a small clearance so as not to impede rotation of the pinion.

As to the lack of springing I have no idea having never seen one of these movements. The hole the black plate could be a spring termination but I am really flying a kite now. Hope somebody familiar with this movement can help out.

You did it again. I took a spring attached it to the hole on the black plate that actuates the strike lever and hooked the other end of the spring through the movement plate to help hold it in place.

 

[Ken X]

Well, its certainly different. I am wondering what the original solution was as this was probably not it. Does prove the principle though.

If this works, it might be worth seeing if a light torsion spring would locate on the pinion between the black lever and the main plate. Something like this. The hook end could locate over the plate edge and a ninety degree bend in the other end would locate in the existing black plate hole.

 

[Allan Wolff]

I have worked on a number of Jauch movements, but I haven't done a Jauch tube movement so this is just a guess. I have a Herschede 9-tube movement on the test stand right now and it does not have a strike return spring. The spring of the hammer assembly supplies the tension to return the strike lever. Without the cord attached between the strike lever and the hammer assembly, the strike lever just flops around. If Jauch used a similar design, a return spring may not be necessary and may even stall the strike train. Do you have the strike hammer connected for testing?

 

[Naif Baidoon]

I have worked on a number of Jauch movements, but I haven't done a Jauch tube movement so this is just a guess. I have a Herschede 9-tube movement on the test stand right now and it does not have a strike return spring. The spring of the hammer assembly supplies the tension to return the strike lever. Without the cord attached between the strike lever and the hammer assembly, the strike lever just flops around. If Jauch used a similar design, a return spring may not be necessary and may even stall the strike train. Do you have the strike hammer connected for testing?

You didn't answer my question above. WHAT does it chime on the hour?

I now think I know what you were getting at. When I put the chime bar on the chimes sounded awful and the chime timing got off course. So I searched for the first chime to play the very first note on the first quarter by trying various position on the chime bar. After about 30 minutes of trying this I finally got it. Your thinking was a light year ahead of me. I should have put the chime bar on and then tried to get the chimes synced.

Uh

 

[Naif Baidoon]

I have worked on a number of Jauch movements, but I haven't done a Jauch tube movement so this is just a guess. I have a Herschede 9-tube movement on the test stand right now and it does not have a strike return spring. The spring of the hammer assembly supplies the tension to return the strike lever. Without the cord attached between the strike lever and the hammer assembly, the strike lever just flops around. If Jauch used a similar design, a return spring may not be necessary and may even stall the strike train. Do you have the strike hammer connected for testing?

It is up and running now. I ended up removing the spring from the black plate and making a new one to put on tne pinion because it keep coming off.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

Well, its certainly different. I am wondering what the original solution was as this was probably not it. Does prove the principle though.

If this works, it might be worth seeing if a light torsion spring would locate on the pinion between the black lever and the main plate. Something like this. The hook end could locate over the plate edge and a ninety degree bend in the other end would locate in the existing black plate hole.

View attachment 763969

I changed the spring because the pinion would pop out. You can see a pic in my reply to Wolf. Thanks for your help.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

It is up and running now. I ended up removing the spring from the black plate and making a new one to put on tne pinion because it keep coming off.

View attachment 764104

If you know where I can find a replacement gear for the chime mechanism like the picture below please let me know. The gear has a missing tooth.

 

[Naif Baidoon]

If you know where I can find a replacement gear for the chime mechanism like the picture below please let me know. The gear has a missing tooth.

View attachment 764106

I am surprised I was able to get this think running. It had several damaged parts. The person I bought it from packaged the weights in with the movement. I still can not believe someone would do that.