Help Jauch 77 Gathering Pallet adjustment.

disciple_dan

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So I have this Jauch 77 I'm overhauling. I've installed 27 bushing and 2 chain wheel bushings. I have found this to be a very unfriendly movement to repair. It has some very small pivots. All wanting to be set at the same time.
Anyway, the gathering pallet has a square pivot post and a square hole has been established in the pallet. So, I'm trying to get the pallet synced with the stop pin. This is where I'm at.
20210927_082606.jpg 20210927_082644.jpg
Since the arbor is square I can't easily change its position. It's working this way but I don't like the looks of it. I think I'm going to have to separate the plates and get the pin and the pallet in the correct position and close. I've tried to put the pallet in a different position but it just goes back to that established square hole.
Any ideas? Thanks, Danny
 

wow

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Dan, on one like that where there is only one lifting pin on the GP, when the pallet is in the cut off position (locked), the pin on the wheel is not locked inside the plates. Then when you reach the warning, the GP lock releases and the inside wheel moves slightly but is locked by the pin on the wheel being stopped by the lever. At that point, the paddle that is lifted by the star wheel should be between two star lifts and not resting on one. Make sense?
 

Willie X

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Sometimes you can get close enough with one of the 4 GP positions available, sometimes you can't and have to re-mesh things between the plates.

27 bushings!!!

Willie X
 
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disciple_dan

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I don't have the hammers on it yet. The pin on the interior wheel is what arrests the train. As you can see on the rack stop lever it has a round pin that ducks down into the pallet notch. Here are some pics. This a late 70's, 80's Jauch 77.
I'm uploading a vid now. Thanks, Will.
20210927_103412-1.jpg 20210927_103441-2.jpg
 

disciple_dan

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Here's the video. It's working fine I just don't like it. Danny
 

disciple_dan

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That video quality is terrible. I watched it right after I posted it and I don't remember it being like that. Could you see it?
I don't like that the catch pin on the rack hook is not fully resting in the pallet notch. It works like that but it looks wrong, don't you think?
Thanks Wow, Danny
 

wow

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That video quality is terrible. I watched it right after I posted it and I don't remember it being like that. Could you see it?
I don't like that the catch pin on the rack hook is not fully resting in the pallet notch. It works like that but it looks wrong, don't you think?
Thanks Wow, Danny
Yes, I think that’s wrong too but I would have to watch it up close to se what is happening.
 

Dick Feldman

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Hello Dan,

I would compliment you on getting that movement apart and back together without a bent or broken pivot.
Others may feel you have overdone things with adding bushings but I have found most or many of that style movement to be in to be worn throughout. For example, I have seen excessive wear in the front plate at the hand shaft arbor. With most movements that is uncommon to rare. I believe the situation is due to poor initial design and materials. I have seen many of those movements come to me as not running because a previous repair person has assumed that good enough is good enough.
I have found one can get relatively reliable and long term operation from those movements but it takes lots of bushings.
For those of you not familiar with those Jauch movements, they were standard equipment in 70's Emperor kit clocks.
I take my hat off to you,
Best Regards,
Dick
 

disciple_dan

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Thanks, Dick. T3F is the only bearing I did not have to bush in the time train. T3R had the most wear in the movement. I bushed every bearing except for 4 of the chain wheel bearings and T3F. It's from a 70's Emperor clock kit. I got it cheap enough and I'm just getting it ready to sell.
I really want to reset that G pallet but as you say, it's easy to bend a pivot. Separating and meshing gears is risky. I don't see any other options at this point.
Thanks for all the great help, Danny
 

shutterbug

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I think you need to see what the hammer is doing so y ou can set the GP accordingly. The position of the GP can be altered to match the hammer drop to the stop. There's a surprising amount of leeway there. You may still find that you have to move the stop wheel, but more than likely you can alter the star wheel to conform to your preferred stopping position.
 
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wow

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really want to reset that G pallet but as you say, it's easy to bend a pivot. Separating and meshing gears is risky
Use a small puller to remove the GP if you have one. If not, try two screwdrivers or two paint can openers and it will come off without bending the arbor. Set it so it does cut off the train. At that point, the stop pin on the wheel should not be in a stopped position. That pin only stops the train during warn.
 

disciple_dan

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I've had the gathering pallet off twice, once to at disassembly and then again trying to get it set right. It has a square arbor and when I try to put it on in a way that does not line up with the square hole in the pallet, as I tap it down it rotates to find the square sides on the arbor. I'm afraid I'll waller out the hole if I keep that up.
Are you sure that the pin on the warning wheel doesn't stop the train also? See how the post on the rack hook interacts with the G pallet? It's round and It doesn't have a flat spot to catch the pallet. Also, watch as the pallet comes around to the wayned off side (or the flat side) at the end of the strike, the round post on the rack hook drops into the flat spot. The tab on the top of the rack hook that turns inside the plate drops with it falling in front of the pin on the warning wheel inside the plates stopping the train. That is going to happen every time, isn't it? How can you change that? That's by design, isn't it? Or, what am I missing here? Do I need to make a better video? Sorry for the confusion, thanks for the help, Danny
 

shutterbug

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Yeah, make a video with the hammers attached. That might help.
 

disciple_dan

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Yeah, thanks but that's a different type of movement. It has a different rack hook and pallet stop. Danny
 

wow

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Dan, if you have tried the GP in all four positions and it still does not lock the train when the rack reaches the top, then you have no option but to open the plates and reposition the pin wheel. It should opperate like the one I posted the videos does. Is what I think. !:???:?
 

disciple_dan

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There are many differences in the design of the one in the videos you put up. The rack on mine has round pins, the one in the video has large flat tabs and the pallet is constructed differently. I'm not arguing I just don't see how to make the pallet do the stopping. I tried moving the pin on the inner wheel to the other side of the tab at the top of the rack hook. that made the pallet and pin on the rack hook look right but when it tripped the hour it went right back to where you see it now. When that pin that you're saying is the stop for the pallet to grab begins to go down into the low area of the pallet on the last revolution the tab at the top of the rack hook drops also and stops the pin on the wheel. Watch this video and see what you think. I really appreciate your help, Danny
 

wow

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Yours may be supposed to be set up that way. When you get to the warn, what happens? Does the pin on the wheel release the train and the GP stops the train and then releases it when the hand reaches the 1/4 ? I can’t tell from the video. I’ve never seen that and don’t understand how it could work. The lever that stops the pin normally drops when the 1/4 hour is reached and releases the stopped wheel. If it is working right you may want to just let it go. “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”?
 

disciple_dan

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That's some terrible video quality. How do you publish in Hi-Def? I'll try to do a better one if needed.
I would like to know if it's right or wrong. If it's not designed that way then it's broken. See how the lifting lever that goes all the way across to the strike side to lift the rack? You can see the G pallet advance going into warning. When the rack hook is lifted the rack hook tab at the top releases the pin on the wheel and the lifting lever catches it, It's in warn. After that lever drops down into the chime cam it releases the pin on the wheel and lets the strike process begin. I just don't see it working any other way. Does anybody know ChimeClockFan? I bet he would know.
Thanks for all your help, I know this takes up a lot of your time. I really appreciate it. Danny
 

disciple_dan

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Ok, I found this post at worthpoint.com. It's the same movement I have here. Looking at the gathering pallet position in this picture I am convinced I have it set up correctly so I'm calling this one solved. It's ready to go back in the case. Thank you for the great help. On to the next adventure. Danny
 

wow

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Ok, I found this post at worthpoint.com. It's the same movement I have here. Looking at the gathering pallet position in this picture I am convinced I have it set up correctly so I'm calling this one solved. It's ready to go back in the case. Thank you for the great help. On to the next adventure. Danny
Well, Dan, I learned something too. I’ve never seen that exact set-up. Glad you got it. Thanks for sharing your “adventure”!
 

disciple_dan

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Thanks, Will. I might do one more video with it in the case before I put the dial on. I can't remember what it sounds like. How do I do youtube in HD? I have a good camera on my phone. Those last 2 videos I did were terrible when you enlarged them. I have to get that figured out. Thanks again, Danny
 

wow

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Thanks, Will. I might do one more video with it in the case before I put the dial on. I can't remember what it sounds like. How do I do youtube in HD? I have a good camera on my phone. Those last 2 videos I did were terrible when you enlarged them. I have to get that figured out. Thanks again, Danny
I don’t know about HD. I just make a video on my iPhone and upload it to my YouTube channel. Then I copy the link and paste it here. I had to get my grandkids to teach me how to do that. LOL
 

disciple_dan

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Ok, sorry about the crappy videos I've been posting. I have been using a 10+ year-old Note 3 that I keep as a media player for Pandora and I thought taking great pictures. I guess is so outdated it won't process the videos in HD. Ok, better days ahead, Danny
 

wow

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Dan, your last video is not available any more. Can you post a new video of it running with audio so we can see and hear the escapement? That’s the only way we can get an idea of what is happening.
 

disciple_dan

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Yeah, it's there, post #29. I pull down that crappy SD version and put an HD up. Have a look, Thanks, Danny
 

wow

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Yeah, it's there, post #29. I pull down that crappy SD version and put an HD up. Have a look, Thanks, Danny
Yea. That video does not show the escapement and you cannot hear the ticks. If you have a beat amp hook it up. If not, put the mike close so we can hear it and be able to hear and see any irregularities.
 

disciple_dan

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It seems to need a little more power. It has a 4 lb 15 oz weight on the time. I'm going to put it on the bench and check a couple of things, end shake, binding, lifting levers, etc. Any ideas?
 

wow

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It’s perfectly in beat but that fork on the leader is way off. There should not be nearly that much play. Close the fork in so the leader doesn’t move that much. You are losing pendulum amplitude there.
 

disciple_dan

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Yeah, that's what I thought. It's by design though. That is an adjustable beat leader. You can move it left or right to set the beat. The crutch foot has to have that space for the leader to slip into it. Do you think I should try to find a different leader to adapt to it, one that won't have that much wasted movement? I think it needs more weight too. I can't seem to find a definite weight spec for the Jauch 77. Unless I did some bad centering on my bushings it should be in pretty good shape. I'm using my bushing machine without trouble so far. Thanks for the input, Danny
 

shutterbug

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Maybe a shorter suspension spring would bring the thicker part of the hanger up into the crutch. You could adjust the gap much easier that way. It really looks like the wrong hanger for the clock though.
 

shutterbug

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Maybe a shorter suspension spring would bring the thicker part of the hanger up into the crutch. You could adjust the gap much easier that way. It really looks like the wrong hanger for the clock though.
 

disciple_dan

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I would bring the thicker part of the hanger up into the crutch. You could adjust the gap much easier that way
Good eye ShutterBug. I got a manual from Emporer clock Co. and it is the original equipment. Even the drawing showed the wide part of the leader up into the crutch foot. I just bent the foot down enough to engage the wide part and all is well so far. My weights are 5# ea. and the manual calls for 6# on ea. train. I'm thinking about increasing the weight but I can't help but think that those are the weights that caused all the wear in this movement. What do you think? Thanks, Danny
 

disciple_dan

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What do you think about the weight specs? I ordered a manual for this model (M100) Jauch 77 from Emporer Clock Co. Oh, yeah. That gathering pallet setup is correct according to the manual. Thanks, Will. Danny
 

shutterbug

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I agree. Messing with weights is a lot of trouble. Springs are easier :)
 
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disciple_dan

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Well, It's nearly completed. Just a little hammer tuning to do. Thanks for all the great posts that helped me bring this worn-out Jauch 77 back to life. See you on the next adventure, Danny
 
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