Japy Cartel help needed

Schnebbles

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Jun 14, 2021
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Hi everyone,
I’m new here and new to clocks. I would like to thank everybody for any help given to me it will be greatly appreciated.

I got this clock at an estate sale and I am needing some help finding out a little bit more than I know because the stamp on it does not seem to go with anything I found online. It’s missing the pendulum which I’m trying to get a hold of but I’m positive it will work I took it 2 o’clock expert over the weekend and we got it a key and wound it And he said it will work with us need to get a pendulum and he did not have one.
I think it’s a beautiful clock and he told me he would rate it a B+/A- so it’s in very good shape.
29381DB0-4C11-4E5D-BB58-7202E4D36A80.jpeg 8EC54E9E-C37D-449B-B238-EAD5B989D355.jpeg 97191C3B-EB2A-4E12-8165-2C804CC08AD9.jpeg EC861FB3-1B75-4C9D-928B-C2C04BED5FC9.jpeg 8F29E31C-BC9C-45B7-B812-4E9FDF673978.jpeg
 
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JTD

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Welcome to the board'

You have a nice clock with a Japy Freres movement. If you could show us a photo of the whole of the back of the movement it may be that the length of the pendulum you require is stamped on the back.

In any case you can buy a French pendulum on Ebay, either a new one or an antique.

A very nice clock.

JTD
 

Schnebbles

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Thank you. It’s very pretty. I did Look for those pendulum numbers and I did not see them but here is a picture of the entire thing in case it will help anybody. I’m really excited about this clock and I have checked eBay but I need one with a claw and I didn’t see one that I thought would work. I know it needs to be about 2.4 or 2.5 ounce and the clock guy told me to get one that would be adjustable and there’s another man I need to check with who local before I order.

2A979BB1-7D73-4939-B34F-7E3AC77374FE.jpeg
 

JTD

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The weight is useful but it is the length that is critical. The 'claw' you mention is usually on these French pendulums and I don't quite know what you saw, but in any case the 'claw' part can be bought separately and put on.

You clock man is right about getting one that you can adjust.

JTD
 

Ralph

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Claw.... might be the hook, to hook onto the suspension spring.

Ralph
 

JTD

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Claw.... might be the hook, to hook onto the suspension spring.

Ralph
Yes, I knew what he meant, just wondered what hook he saw on a French pendulum that didn''t looks as if it would work. But anyway, hooks can be bought separately, as I said.

JTD
 

zedric

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Can I ask where you found the Japy stamp? Usually the stamp would be on a movement, but as the photo of the backplate does not shown that I assume it is on the clock case?

Either way, it’s a nice, time and strike clock (I assume you have the bell) from the mid 19th century, made in a style that originated about a century earlier. There is no indication of pendulum length in the movement unfortunately, so you will need to either try another clock guy to see if they have the right length, or take your best guess and get something with a lot of adjustment
 

brian fisher

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so....you said above the clock needs a 2-2.5 ounce pendulum....i wonder if perhaps the previous owner was really talking about "pounce" which would be an old school measurement typically used to measure the pendulum length for Pendule de paris movements.
 

Schnebbles

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The stamp is actually on the movement which is why I had the bill removed to take that photo but it sure doesn’t seem to coincide with any other stamps I’ve seen online both clock people that I’ve talked with say it’s about 1920. I did find a pendulum and I’m checking to see how it keeps time. We just adjusted it a little bit because it was running really fast but at least it’s running so I’m happy with that.

I was a little disappointed when this person told me that he thinks it’s only worth about 350 because I was thinking probably over 1000. I think it’s beautiful

I did mean pounce. Sorry. I’m new to clock terminology.
 
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zedric

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I can see now that the pendulum leader is hiding the stamp in the photo of the backplate. I'm not sure what currency you are using (your profile says you are based in Andorra, so I assume Euro) but these late 19th century cartel clocks do not usually fetch much money, especially in Europe where they are much more common. In other countries, they might do better. Something by Japy might do better in the US, for instance, where it is seen as having a "name brand", while in France such a large proportion of the clocks made in France at the time this one was made would have come from a Japy factory that the name might not add anything to the price.
 
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jmclaugh

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A nice clock. There is no date on this one but Japy won a number of gold (d'Or) medals, afaik the last appears to be in 1849 but it is unclear for how long after that the gold medal mark was used. The clock has through the dial regulation which would indiactes it isn't earlier than mid 19th C.
 
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Schnebbles

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A nice clock. There is no date on this one but Japy won a number of gold (d'Or) medals, afaik the last appears to be in 1849 but it is unclear for how long after that the gold medal mark was used. The clock has through the dial regulation which would indiactes it isn't earlier than mid 19th C.
Ok I was told 1920 or so.
I’m in the US. I thought that’s what I clicked but apparently not.
 
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brian fisher

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i think the clock is perhaps earlier than 1920. you have a count wheel movement which was made for many many years. however, starting in around the 1860's or so, this style of movement began to lose favor to the rack and snail style movement. i don't know when they stopped manufacturing this style, but i personally think 1920 seems late. is the "cabinet" portion of this clock wood or brass?
 

Schnebbles

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i think the clock is perhaps earlier than 1920. you have a count wheel movement which was made for many many years. however, starting in around the 1860's or so, this style of movement began to lose favor to the rack and snail style movement. i don't know when they stopped manufacturing this style, but i personally think 1920 seems late. is the "cabinet" portion of this clock wood or brass?
It’s brass. To me it feels like cast-iron gilded with brass. And it’s running so fast I got to figure out what to do. Another call to the club people I guess and I have the pendulum as long as it can possibly go. I’m going to post a picture of one identical that I found except the face is differentAnd I can’t tell where it’s sold but I believe it sold for about US$1700. Mine is on the left the photo on the right is an online photo

DF4D56F1-081B-4BE4-A181-30921C8BE33F.jpeg
 

zedric

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There is a reason why reproductions sell for less than the original - you or I can afford to buy a print of the Mona Lisa, but the picture itself will be forever above our pay grade. With a print, you get to look at almost exactly the same thing as someone with the real picture, and yet it is so different that the prices are not comparable.

The same is true, to a far lesser extent, between French clocks of the 18th and 19th century, or copiesof English 17th century clocks made in the 1900s. The look is similar, and yet the reality is very different.

with a small photo, it is difficult to say much about the clock on the right. But if the price was justified, then putting it side by side with yours you would see big differences. The modelling of the case would be better, and the casting, chasing and gilding would be superior.. You would find a rectangular movement with signature on the backplate. You would be looking at an original, and not a copy, and people pay more for the original
 

Schnebbles

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So are you saying mine is a reproduction? I’m confused. It’s got the stamp on the movement. Apparently he need more clock education. I can’t keep it running either.
 

new2clocks

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So are you saying mine is a reproduction? I’m confused. It’s got the stamp on the movement. Apparently he need more clock education. I can’t keep it running either.
Your clock is legitmate.

The term "reproduction" has a negative connotation in the clock world and I would not describe your clock as a reproduction. I describe your clock as a "Japy clock, circa 1900 (using a conservative estimate), in the style of an earlier period".

I believe Zedric's point was that when a style of an earlier period is brought back at a later time, the object from that earlier period, whether clocks or furniture, etc., commands a higher value.

Regards.
 
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JTD

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I can’t keep it running either.
Is it in beat? If you don't know how to set it in beat, look for 'Beat Setting 101' at top of page, which will tell you how to do it.

Of course it may well need a thorough cleaning as well.

JTD
 
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zedric

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Your clock is legitmate.

The term "reproduction" has a negative connotation in the clock world and I would not describe your clock as a reproduction. I describe your clock as a "Japy clock, circa 1900 (using a conservative estimate), in the style of an earlier period".

I believe Zedric's point was that when a style of an earlier period is brought back at a later time, the object from that earlier period, whether clocks or furniture, etc., commands a higher value.

Regards.
Yes, my mistake in using the word “reproduction”. You do indeed have a genuine Japy clock, but it is not worth nearly as much as a clock in the same style from an earlier period.

While there are a few French clock styles that originated in the 19th century (the carriage clock being one that comes to mind) many French clocks of the time we’re made in the style of earlier eras, as “decorator pieces” to keep your house fashionable as fashions changed.
 
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captainclock

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It’s brass. To me it feels like cast-iron gilded with brass. And it’s running so fast I got to figure out what to do. Another call to the club people I guess and I have the pendulum as long as it can possibly go. I’m going to post a picture of one identical that I found except the face is differentAnd I can’t tell where it’s sold but I believe it sold for about US$1700. Mine is on the left the photo on the right is an online photo

View attachment 659099
If you need a proper Replacement pendulum for your clock and it needs to have a "regulator nut" on the pendulum itself (rather than having a key hole on top of dial for regulating the speed), I might have what you need. I had gotten an old pendulum bob with a built in regulator nut that is the same style of pendulum bob that these Pendule de Paris clocks use that came in the back of an old Seth Thomas Leader No. 1 Mantle Clock I picked up at a local flea market, and at the time I didn't know what kind of pendulum it was or what kind of clock it would of went to (until I got my 1860s Henry Marc badged Japy clock that someone gave me for the price of shipping, and when I saw the style of pendulum the clock used I saw that the pendulum I had this whole entire time was a Pendulum for a Pendule de Paris Clock.)

You're welcome to my pendulum I have, as I don't have a clock that can use the pendulum, I would just ask that you pay me shipping for it.

Thanks,

Levi
 
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Schnebbles

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Thanks everyone! I’m clear now. Even if it’s not worth what I thought it’s still pretty. What would you guys say on value if I eBay it? Assuming I get the time working properly

I think it’s ticking correctly. I’ll read that article tho. The guy who I got the pendulum from said it was


Levi-I’ll try to message you the pendulum. It picked up an hour or 2 in 12 yesterday. I can’t remember which. The pendulum I got is about 6” long and I can’t make it any longer. I was going to weigh it today to see if maybe that’s the problem. I’d be very interested in the one you have if we think it’ll work. Thank you!

You’ve all been very helpful!
 

captainclock

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Thanks everyone! I’m clear now. Even if it’s not worth what I thought it’s still pretty. What would you guys say on value if I eBay it? Assuming I get the time working properly

I think it’s ticking correctly. I’ll read that article tho. The guy who I got the pendulum from said it was


Levi-I’ll try to message you the pendulum. It picked up an hour or 2 in 12 yesterday. I can’t remember which. The pendulum I got is about 6” long and I can’t make it any longer. I was going to weigh it today to see if maybe that’s the problem. I’d be very interested in the one you have if we think it’ll work. Thank you!

You’ve all been very helpful!
I just sent you a reply to your PM, sorry it was so late I had been kind of busy and also had been sick over Father's Day Weekend with a 24 Hour Stomach Bug that gave me really bad diarrhea.

The length of the Pendulum I have is 5" I don't know if that's what you need or not. the picture of the one I have is in the PM I sent you, maybe you could send me a picture of the pendulum you have so I can see what yours looks like compared to mine (your pictures didn't show up that I could see of anyways in your message you sent me about your pendulum).
 

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