James Payne London Year 1808

Halda Sweden

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This pocket watch has something extra. The decoration on movement is rather special.

James Payne London No 2530.

It´s has a rather large silvercase, ca 65 mm. It´s made 1808.

I believe the casemaker is Samuel Atkins, Bridgewater square, London, reg. 1801.

Any information regarding the case- and watchmaker?

Best rgds
Peter B.

2.jpg 8.jpg 7.jpg 10.jpg s-l1600.jpg
 

novicetimekeeper

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I've just bought a drop dial clock signed for James Payne. He worked at 17 Foster Lane, which runs north from Cheapside. The books have him as working from 1793-1825 but David Penney has this in his archive of sold watches suggesting he was working earlier

 

John Matthews

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Interesting the PO directory of that year & 1814 has ...

Payne J. Clock & Watch maker, 18 St Ann's Lane, Aldergate
Payne, James. Ironmonger & Brazier, 17 Foster Lane, Cheapside

Also James at the same address in 1803

So given 3 entries in trade directories from 1803 to 1814, I would certainly want to check the sources that identified James of Foster Lane as being the watch/clock maker.

Interested to know if there is a cap maker's mark on the underside of the cap.

John

Edit: Loomes has both listed, I suspect Foster Lane came from Baillie. In 1825 a Jas Payne is listed in 18 St Ann's Lane, Foster Lane - so I suspect mistakes have been made with the identification of these two individuals. I can find no evidence of a watch maker listed at 17 Foster Lane.
 
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novicetimekeeper

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The address of 17 foster lane is engraved on the watch though
 

novicetimekeeper

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Here it is


It seems to have gone from the modern map. That's unusual, rights of way are usually maintained with modern rebuilding, there are little lanes and alleys all over the city that are still in existence between modern buildings.
 

John Matthews

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The address of 17 foster lane is engraved on the watch though
Perhaps he was the owner, or more likely a retailer, who had the watch heavily engraved for publicity.

John
 

novicetimekeeper

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Possibly retailer of clocks and watches, as the dial clock would have been bought in. I'm not convinced they are not the same person though, as the addresses are so close.
 

novicetimekeeper

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That's the map I linked to above.

I don't know what the norm was by the turn of the 18th century/ beginning 19thC, but a hundred years earlier plenty of clock and watch makers would have been in the Braziers or Ironmongers company rather than the Clockmakers company. Both the Braziers and Blacksmiths had incorporated with the Armourers by the early part of the 18thC.

The requirement was to be in a guild, less so for a particular guild.
 

SKennedy

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'Layer's of London' is a most useful website when trying to find old street addresses. You can overlay historic maps with the current street map.

Using the layer for Horwood's map of 1799, St Anns Lane appears to be the Western end of what is now Gresham Street, between Foster Lane and St Martins Le Grand.
 
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novicetimekeeper

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Yes I agree, St Annes lane seems to be Gresham Street now, and St Anne's church is St Agnes & St Annes as rebuilt by Wren (and subsequently bombed)
 

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