James Nardin pivot detent New Orleans sold

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Travler1, Dec 28, 2019.

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  1. Travler1

    Travler1 Registered User
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    Dec 26, 2012
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    31B46391-97F0-4019-B97A-22A770E734CB.jpeg 9BF2D7D8-CE49-47C1-8F5D-907DFA373DF6.jpeg F72B5FE8-0CBD-4212-8275-EEEDE4DC2E3F.jpeg 9A018E9C-CBA0-419B-852E-EF7C0ED09B2A.jpeg

    Hello all, I dug this one out for your help and thoughts. My photos do not show clearly the mvt. number of 8844 .

    I am guessing James Nardin as the maker....as a result of JN on the inside back cover. I was wondering if the movement finish would be thought of as above standard ....The center wheel to the escape wheel and balance screws appear to be rose gold. Also of interest to me ....is the retailer Hyde & Goodrich New Orleans, seem to have not survived the “War of Northern Aggression”. I have noted their dates of operation from 1830-1861 in New Orleans. ....and my W.A.G. Is that this watch was made around 1850 something ...

    I have read of the other similarities with swiss pivot detent makers of this era ....mostly Jergensen and Matile with one comment saying Nardin and Jergensen could have finished Audemar movements....?

    Any help appreciated ...thanks a bunch ....John
     
  2. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Nov 27, 2012
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    Higher grade on this one. I have a variation 1855 (no detent).

    Nice John!!

    Keith R...
     
  3. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #3 Keith R..., Dec 28, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
    I prefer the high jewels with detent and high grade nickel finish. I believe this one signed
    JW Benson from his early shop, at 20J.

    The crown unscrews to a hidden key. These early ebauches went to high end makers.

    Keith R...

    JWB3 (1600x1200).jpg JWB4 (1325x1600).jpg JWB (1600x1200).jpg
     
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  4. Travler1

    Travler1 Registered User
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    Very cool Keith ....thanks
     
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  5. Travler1

    Travler1 Registered User
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    As I sort through the information on line and consider my original post above. I would like to ask the collective for help with the case marking/punch JN ( with crown above) Since my movement and dial are unsigned.... it could be cavalier for me to ascribe this watch to James Nardin ......Does anyone have a photo of this same mark circa 1850-1860 with a signed dial and or movement ? Or possibly a printed resource of such ? Secondly if this watch is positively from JN, would I then assume it has his style of detent ? I have read that Matile produced essentially the same pivot detent during this time period. Which was based on Nardin’s detent but then modified a tad with his build.

    Please correct me if I’ve gone astray with these thoughts !! ....all the best ..John
     
  6. Travler1

    Travler1 Registered User
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    95B1117C-A477-4385-A403-15DD8F4E4206.png 82ADB105-F2D4-4F2E-B559-CD89723A0FC1.png 7A252DF1-DD42-4A00-92D6-F01AAFCFBB29.png 2D8FA0E6-F2CB-4E8A-A7B7-3BBB2AA0303B.png
    And so ....the above is an auction listing I discovered with James Nardins factory case mark . as such I would state with 99% certainty that the two watches photographed in this post both Pivot Detents produced by James Nardin ...rather than Matile or Jurgensen .....in the event someone is going down the path that I have just traveled !!!! Heh heh heh ....travler1 ...he he
     
  7. Philip Poniz

    Philip Poniz Moderator
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    I looked up your thread, John, as you asked me in your email and I hope it is not a disappointment that the mark JN is not of James Nardin. “JN” under a coronet is found on cases housing movements of Jules Jṻrgensen, Ulysses Nardin, James Nardin, Huguenot, Dubois, etc. They date from the 1840s to 1860s.

    A few of them, found on Jürgensens, Nardins, and Duboises, can be identified from the archives. The casemaker is always listed as Jean Nardin from a well known family of casemakers:

    Jean Frédéric Nardin (1788-1855)
    Jean Frédéric Nardin (1822-1900), a son of the above
    Jean Edouard Nardin (1850 1910), a son of the above
    Charles Philippe Nardin (1888-1970), a son of the above

    Clearly, your case was made by one of the Jean Frédérics. There are two known marks belonging to them, “JN” and “JFN”.

    JFNs C.png

    The problem is that sometimes in the registers the mark “JFN” is recorded as of Jean Nardin’s. However, after about 1865, Jean F. appears more frequently. Therefore, it follows that the “JN” belonged to the father, and “JFN” to the son, who just added two bars to the “J” of his father. It is quite likely that the “JN” company existed after the death of the owner in 1855. For instance, in 1864, Ulysse Nardin No. 3243 was recorded with a case from Jean Nardin, and the consecutive watch, No. 3244 with a case from Jean F. Nardin.

    Your watch dates circa 1860 and the ébauche was almost certainly made by Piguet Frères. It was used by many Le Locle area établissements. It was even used by an American, Charles E. DeLong.

    Since JN made cases for James Nardin, a cousin of Ulysses Nardin, I have seen strong opinions that “JN” must be a mark of James Nardin. It is not though. I even remember an argument with my colleague years ago in Geneva about it. He was wrong.

    Philip Poniz
     
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  8. Travler1

    Travler1 Registered User
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    Phillip .....thank you so much for your detailed post on the JN case mark. I compliment you and your knowledge Phillip.

    It appears that I am back to square one as far as the house that finished my watch ...as I assumed that a JN Case mark indicated a JN finished movement.

    Do you ave any specific thoughts based on bridge or escapement details, on who might have finished this movement ? I am assuming movement serial numbers won’t be of use for this determination?
     

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