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Jahresuhrenfabrik

roughbarked

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A bit dusty. It has been sitting in the shed/workshop since about 1990. Thought I'd get it out and see why it has been languishing so long. Haven't done any contract work at that bench since about 1996. Looks like I probably practiced using the bushing tool on it.
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roughbarked

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...and people say they're difficult!

:)
Well I'd obviously cleaned and bushed it decades past and it has been under the glass cover ever since with the pendulum unattached. All it needed was to be put in beat. I wonder now why I hadn't done that at the time. Must have been because I was busier back then. I'd be silly not to clean and reoil it properly at least sometime in the next year.

From past experience with 400 day clocks getting them in beat is usually all they really need other than occasional cleaning. Though clearly I have seen ones where the worn pivots had to be turned and polished and as a result new bushings needed to be fitted.

So getting them in beat is the most important skill to know. I made a video of the pendulum amplitude but it is too big to upload to flickr by the looks.
 
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MartinM

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I own sever hundred and have worked on many more and while I've seen a few that have been bushed, previously, I have only seen one that actually needed a bushing.
 

harold bain

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I own sever hundred and have worked on many more and while I've seen a few that have been bushed, previously, I have only seen one that actually needed a bushing.
Considering they get only about 1/52nd or less, of the use of an 8 day clock, they really shouldn't need bushings. I have encountered only a couple that did.
 

Kevin W.

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I encountered one so far that could have used a few bushings, but not many do need them.
 

roughbarked

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All true. It is a rare event to need to bush a 400 day clock. However, that doesn't mean to say that it doesn't occur. Where I live is an arid and dusty environment where there is no escaping the heat. You don't need to worry about hanging clocks above heaters because everywhere is HOT.
 

John Hubby

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Considering they get only about 1/52nd or less, of the use of an 8 day clock, they really shouldn't need bushings. I have encountered only a couple that did.
It may be interesting to note that the minute arbor on a 400-Day turns just as much as one on an ordinary 8-day clock. The arbors in each direction in the train from there turn slower and slower the further away from center, so Harold is generally correct. Thing is, I seldom have to rebush the pivots on a center arbor on any clock so that one must have the optimum combination of rotation speed and load to keep from wearing out.
 

victor miranda

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I think the wear issue is best described by pressure.

how hard a bearing is forced into the material of the bearing is pressure.
the oil or grease is pressed out the same way.
if any abrasive material gets in there, pressure will help with both
the grinding and reduction of the abrasive into a finer powder or helping creating a cutting tool.

400 day clocks are often under a dust proof dome
and the low power helps stop the clock before much if any damage is done.
I find the lubrication, rather the lack of it, stops the thing.

If 400 day clock carried bigger springs, they'd likely need more re-bushing.

victor
 

Kevin W.

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Bigger springs will wear any clock, that we do know.
 

John Hubby

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If 400 day clock carried bigger springs, they'd likely need more re-bushing.

victor
There are two perfect examples of this happening. The S. Haller narrow plate full size movements made from about 1952 onward were redesigned to use pinions with fewer leaves (e.g. six instead of eight) and to overcome the additional friction in the train this caused they had to increase the mainspring size rather significantly. The first wheel pivot on the end where the mainspring barrel drives that pinion WILL wear considerably if not well lubricated and even then if the clock runs continuously for several years you will find excessive wear at that point.

The other example is the Huber design lantern pinion-pin pallet movements. These were overpowered from the factory, but the wear occurs at the escape wheel and pin pallet anchor arbors. The impact of the pins being stuck by the escape teeth causes oval wear in opposite directions on these two, resulting in lock and drop going off, loss of impulse, etc. These movements run very well but if they run continuously for several years you will find rebushing needed especially on the pivots closest to the escape wheel.

Generally speaking 400-Day movements won't need rebushing, these two are the only exceptions I know of.
 

roughbarked

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Inadequate lubrication will allow for pivots to wear on all clocks. In such instances bushing may be rquired but otherwiose as suggested above, the basic design of the clock practically removes the necessity to bush such clocks if they are kept clean and lubricated.
 

John Hubby

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I've never had a 1000 day clock to tinker.
Do they need bushing ?

victor
Victor, the answer from my experience is "no". While they have a much larger and more powerful mainspring than the 400-Day version, there is an additional wheel in the train that gives the 1000 day run time, and it has larger pivots, pinions, and gears to accommodate the force from the mainspring.
 

roughbarked

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Anyway, we had an oils ain't oils thread elsewhere. This clock was simply dusted down and put in beat. The oil applied was simply household oil. Like cheap stuff from the supermarket that was used to get your sewing machine or whatever around the house, working again.

The clock is beating away like it was simply sitting there waiting for someone to activate it.

or..

It is now, again. On last weekend I was doing some paniting of architraves and I think I must have bumped the cabinet this was sitting on because it had stopped. At first it wouldn't go. So I left it until this eve and took the pendulum off, checked the action. I know not why but I slightly tweaked the spring because I believe it had kinked slightly. Started it running and made a slight adjustment to beat, away it goes and is still.
 
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roughbarked

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There are two perfect examples of this happening. The S. Haller narrow plate full size movements made from about 1952 onward were redesigned to use pinions with fewer leaves (e.g. six instead of eight) and to overcome the additional friction in the train this caused they had to increase the mainspring size rather significantly. The first wheel pivot on the end where the mainspring barrel drives that pinion WILL wear considerably if not well lubricated and even then if the clock runs continuously for several years you will find excessive wear at that point.

The other example is the Huber design lantern pinion-pin pallet movements. These were overpowered from the factory, but the wear occurs at the escape wheel and pin pallet anchor arbors. The impact of the pins being stuck by the escape teeth causes oval wear in opposite directions on these two, resulting in lock and drop going off, loss of impulse, etc. These movements run very well but if they run continuously for several years you will find rebushing needed especially on the pivots closest to the escape wheel.

Generally speaking 400-Day movements won't need rebushing, these two are the only exceptions I know of.
Inadequate lubrication will allow for pivots to wear on all clocks. In such instances bushing may be required but otherwise as suggested above, the basic design of the clock practically removes the necessity to bush such clocks if they are kept clean and lubricated.
If either of us are still around from at least thirty to fifty years hence. We could check back on this thread perhaps? I'll make it a clause in my will if you wish. ;)
 

harold bain

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Never run into bad pivots on a 400 day clock.
 

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