J. bautte Geneva anyone tell me about this watch

Kevin W.

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Pictures would help to answer your question.
 

Kevin W.

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The case might be silver cant tell from pictures, can you post pictures of any hall marks.
Looks like a low end Swiss bar type movement.
 

joecaddy

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Feb 19, 2011
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It is gold or at least looks gold and the front cover is stamped 512 that is all I see. I would not know where to look for hallmarks. could you guide me where to start please? Thanks Joe
 

DaveC

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joecaddy;533847 said:
It is gold or at least looks gold and the front cover is stamped 512 that is all I see. I would not know where to look for hallmarks. could you guide me where to start please? Thanks Joe
Hallmarks are typically on the inside of the back cover.

It looks silver to me from the pictures. The movement is a pretty common low grade cylinder escapement type. Those aren't usually cased in solid gold cases.

Also it is Swiss, there are no Swiss "Swiss fakes", as they are really Swiss made (although the name could be fake).
 

Roland Ranfft

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Hi there,

Jean Francoise Bautte (1772-1837) was a very famous watchmaker,
specialized on very thin ond/or small watches. He made movements even
thinner than 1mm. The company is still in business as Girard Perregaux.

Although the fame faded after the death of Bautte, and also medium grade
watches were made, I suspect the above is a fake just using the name.

The company signed either Bautte & Moynier, Bautte, J.F. Bautte, or
Moulinier & Bautte, but never J. Bautte, if I believe in literature.

Here is an example of a tiny movement:
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Bautte_10H1_8

View attachment 4868

It has 22.2mm diameter and is 1.8mm thick. On an average PC display the
pic above is therefore three times magnified. Remember that this is 185
years old, and the thinnest movement produced today is 1.64mm thick.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
 

joecaddy

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Feb 19, 2011
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The only hallmarks I could find on the back cover. Very small is a very fancy f and s thats all I could find for know. I will keep looking. The watch is very thin by the way. Could mean nothing. But any help would be great.
 

Dr. Jon

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Based on the styling of the dial and look of the watch, I think it is circa 1880 plus or minus about 10 years. During that time, the famous Bautte firm was run by Rossel and they made much higher quality watches. The Bautte watcehs I have seen are in wonderfully decorated gold cases, although usually with movements not quite as nice a Ranfft's example, but still very fine.

The line around the dial is to make it look like an American double sunk dial which was becoming fashionable in the US market arount that time. The movements style was in use from about 1850 up until the 1900's. Another clue that it is intended for the US market is the spelling if Geneva rather than the Frence Geneve

Most likly, it was made by another retailer, either named Bautte, or using the name. The retailer may have been related to the original family but not the firm.
 
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jfl

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Some comments: Jean Francis Bautte worked out of Geneva, look at the stem between the case and release button for a hallmark (this is a location that swiss case makers used especially those who spoke french, no I don't know why), Jean Francis produced/marketed cylinder watch movements and had them cased in everything from 18k to base metal, lastly with your description and movement's number of jewels I would suspect the case is a nickel alloy. I hope this helps. JFL
 

Dr. Jon

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It looks like gold to me but of undetermined carat. In countries with hallmarking that is the only valid marking. Hallmarks are controlled by independent agencies and where in force are enforced vigorously.

They can write anything or not write anything with complete freedom but faking a hallmark is big trouble.

A quick and dirty rule of thumb is that it is only gold as if marked either by a hallmark or a carat mark by a major house and it is a genuine product. One exception is that sometimes watches made to order did not have hallmarks. Most "bespoke" watches" are unsigned. If it is signed and not hallmarked assume at best low carat gold unless or until tested.

One other thing. usually the term "Swiss fake" is used to mean a copy of a US railroad watch which is 16 or 18 size, a large or very large mens pocket watch.

There was lots of other Swiss fakery, counterfeiting famous makers in Switzerland and other places and the opposite, making items for famous makers to sign. This is a fraud at some level but, at present, there is no nomenclature for it.

It is all very complicated but the key is to learn to recognize quality. Usually a high quality item has value regardless of who signed it. Spend some time studying watches people regard highly and get to know what makes them so.
 
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