It will not stop chiming at 1 o'clock, AHHH!

sunnyd47

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Sep 4, 2011
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The clock I have in the thread
www.mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=78909
is great, keeps great time and strikes perfectly at every quarter hour as it should until it gets to one o'clock when it will not stop chiming! I have run it through twice from 7 o'clock perfectly, but both times, at the same time, it will not stop chiming.
Once I move the minute hand off of the chime marker, the clock will simply click at the following strike times and not chime at all.
Any ideas?
 
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Kevin W.

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This link does not take you to the clock in question, at least not for me.
 

harold bain

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First thing, you have a time and strike clock. It don't chime a tune, such as Westminster. This makes a big difference in what the problem might be. My suspicion is that the racktail is getting hung up behind the snail at one o'clock. Needs some adjusting of the intermediate gear-hour pipe gear to properly set up the snail. Pictures of the front of the movement should show the problem.
 

shutterbug

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I believe it's a quarter hour bim bam. Quite possible that it's missing the 1:00 position on the snail, and falling into the edge of the 12/1:00 positions. It's possible that it can't climb out of there, but advancing the hand forces it to slip behind the snail and reset itself. You'll have to remove the dial or the movement and show us the front of the clock as Harold mentioned.
 

Talyinka

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First thing, you have a time and strike clock. It don't chime a tune, such as Westminster. This makes a big difference in what the problem might be. My suspicion is that the racktail is getting hung up behind the snail at one o'clock. Needs some adjusting of the intermediate gear-hour pipe gear to properly set up the snail. Pictures of the front of the movement should show the problem.
Yup, I second that motion. On some movements this is not uncommon, e.g. caused by excessive wear in the rack post bearing.
 

Mike Phelan

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The link just gives me some sort of clock forum.

Best thing is to see what happens to the rack tail just before 1:00 as others have said.
Are the hands fitted correctly? The hour wheel (and therefore snail) might have too much play if there's a missing hand washer or collet.

Even if the motion work isn't timed correctly it should only get as far as 12 with respect to the rack falling.
 

sunnyd47

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Amazingly, I have done nothing except manage to start the chimes again and it has passed 1 o'clock without trouble this time. The hand washer is loose but currently perfectly central, I am assuming (big mistake I know) that the hands may well be the issue here. I will tighten up the washer and hope that the current perfect state of play continues.

Should there just be the washer against the hands? Should the washer be just tight enough to be stable as opposed to too tight? (A real naive newbie question I guess :=)

Edit - Spoke too soon - I was not around when the clock passed 1 o'clock, it has just passed 2 and the clock simply gave the single click instead of chiming........Should have know it would not be that simple a problem.
 
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soaringjoy

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Sunny,
the washer would probably be fixed in place by a taper
pin.
Without that, the snail behind the dial will slide back and forth
on the minute arbor and the rack will sometimes jam.
Jurgen
 

shutterbug

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Is the picture taken after the rack falls naturally, or did you manually drop it? If a natural fall, the snail is out of alignment. The rack tail should hit right in the middle of the snail shelf. It's probably hitting the slope of the 1:00 rise when it tries to strike 1:00. To adjust, take out that bottom screw while holding the bracket in position. Then hold the wheel in place while you remove the bracket. Slide the snail out, and turn it until it's in the center. Put the snail back. Still holding the wheel, slip the bracket back on, hold it while you put the screw back in. Let us know how it goes :)
 

Tinker Dwight

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Hi Sunny
Can you give us a picture of it when the
lifting lever just drops of the cam on the center arbor?
If you don't want to mount the minute hand,
you can usually advance the time by turning
the minute wheel CCW.
Hold the rack up so you don't have to reset it every
hour. Leave the strike side unwound so we can see it
right when things go wrong.
Tinker Dwight
 

sunnyd47

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What do you mean by the center? The snail moves forward without much pull before undoing any screws etc and I have turned it anticlockwise one.
 

Tinker Dwight

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Hi
The center arbor is the one that the minute hand attaches
to.
The minute wheel is the below the snail.
You should not turn the snail, it will upset the timing
to the center arbor that defines when the hour strike
is. If you've turned the snail, without turning the center
arbor, you'll have to retime it.
On some clocks the snail is not a real tight fit but it
should not be directly turned. Only the minute hand
should be turned.
Tinker Dwight
Hi I was just looking at your clock again, it may not
have a center arbor but a center post.
Still, the snail should only be advanced from the minute
hand.
 

sunnyd47

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Anyway, I am stumped, told you all I was a newbie.
I have put the clock back together and now the strike does not strike at all, seems like a power issue or not being driven somehow from the front. It was OK before, just the 1 o'clock issue.
 

Jay Fortner

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Hey guys, Has someone ground a wide notch in the 1:00 lobe of the snail or is this clock supposed to be like that. Not something I've ever seen before. Sunnyd you haven't been INTO the movement(or have you?) so whatever is keeping it from striking is right there on the front. It looks like the rack tail is behind the snail and should always fall directly on top. On some clocks the hour cannon is held back by the minute hand so in order for it to stay aligned with the tail you will have to install the minute hand.
 

Jay Fortner

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Amazingly, I have done nothing except manage to start the chimes again and it has passed 1 o'clock without trouble this time. The hand washer is loose but currently perfectly central, I am assuming (big mistake I know) that the hands may well be the issue here. I will tighten up the washer and hope that the current perfect state of play continues.

Should there just be the washer against the hands? Should the washer be just tight enough to be stable as opposed to too tight? (A real naive newbie question I guess :=)

Edit - Spoke too soon - I was not around when the clock passed 1 o'clock, it has just passed 2 and the clock simply gave the single click instead of chiming........Should have know it would not be that simple a problem.
In answer to your hand tension ? Many of these German clocks use the method of setting hand tension by the taper pin. Install your minute hand and any washer that was on it(usually cupped),slide in the taper pin lightly and test tension. If it turns to freely slide the pin in some more and retest. If the pin tightens up in its hole and you still don't have sufficient tension you'll have to remove the pin and add a thin shim washer and start the process over. If I had to throw out a number for hand tension I would say 3-4 oz at the tip of the hand.
 

shutterbug

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Hey guys, Has someone ground a wide notch in the 1:00 lobe of the snail or is this clock supposed to be like that. Not something I've ever seen before.
Just an odd looking snail, I think. The 1:00 would have to be right on the narrow high point to work though. Same thing at 2:00
 

Jay Fortner

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Does anyone see a gathering pallet in that picture? I don't:rolleyes::D.
I noticed that too. Is it gone or something strange going on.
I just went back and blew it up 400x,it looks like the pallet is there but the bushing is BADLY wallered out.
-> posts merged by system <-
Just an odd looking snail, I think. The 1:00 would have to be right on the narrow high point to work though. Same thing at 2:00
That sure makes the timing critical.
 

Mike Phelan

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The snail notches for 1 and 2 are normal for a ting-tang, otherwise it could not strike 1:30, 1:45 and 2:45.

I can see a GP - normal French sort. Is the hole worn or is it just the oil sink? I'd be very surprised if it was worn.
 

sunnyd47

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So, to help me a little more, do you think that the problem lay in the areas of 1 and 2 circled on the following image? or another? Apart from the clock not chiming at all now, the clock keeps great time still.
 

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shutterbug

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It looks like your rack has dropped below the gathering pallet, so it can't be gathered. Normally that would cause a strike run-on, so something else is holding the train from moving. It would also indicate that the rack tail is probably behind the snail (no. 1 in your pic). I can't make out what no. 2 is.
 

sunnyd47

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Can one send oneself to the bottom of the class? If so, I nominate myself!
The chime was not working because:???:??Of course, I was checking the clock winder key, not the chime key, doh.........

Anyway, the problem still persists and now it will not stop striking at every strike point.

I have taken on board everything everyone has said, but, I cannot see the rack tail as being behind the snail, the point of it is sitting right on top.
 

harold bain

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Perhaps if you post a video of it striking, it will be easier to advise. Is the gathering pallet moving the rack on each strike?
 

Vernon

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Sunny,
Back out of this to the clock repair forum page. Near the top is a thread about clock parts terminology. This may help you understand what is being said. :)
 

sunnyd47

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Sunny,
Back out of this to the clock repair forum page. Near the top is a thread about clock parts terminology. This may help you understand what is being said. :)
With respect Vernon, I am a newby, not a complete numpty. My only confusion came from the "falling behind" which was mentioned in relation to the snail. "falling behind" is not mentioned in the terminology thread that you recommend, thats why, when I have looked previously, it never helped with it.

Not until I made a video of the movement and watched it back, could I actually see what was meant by "falling behind".

Hopefully now I have fixed the issue by moving the snails position as recommended earlier to take up the "falling behind" issue.

Thanks for every ones input.
 

shutterbug

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Keep us updated, Sunny. We're getting there! :D
 

Mike Phelan

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Looking at the picture, it's just before 11:00 and in warning. The rack tail is behind the snail so it will strike forever on the hour.

The lever shown below is for the quarter striking and not the problem.

Where is the quarter snail situated - cannot see it so it's probably behind the cannon pinion?
 

sunnyd47

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Here is a video link of what happened before I moved the snail position. As you can see the snail is totally out of position. I have since moved the snail and the clock froze at the 12.45 position when running normally, I suspect that another minor move of the snail is required.

Direct link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8meXTtxu7-8
 

shutterbug

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Here is a video link of what happened before I moved the snail position. As you can see the snail is totally out of position. I have since moved the snail and the clock froze at the 12.45 position when running normally, I suspect that another minor move of the snail is required.
Yeah, likely the rack is dropping before the 1:00 position and hitting the edge, stopping the clock. The video proves we're on the right track. If you can't get it working now, post a new video of the current situation. Be sure we can see the snail in the video :)
 

Mike Phelan

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Sunny, the rack is falling too far and the hook is landing on top of a tooth.

Better if you removed the hands for the pic as we cannot see where the rack tail is landing in relation to the snail.

If that's supposed to be 1:00, it isn't!!

I wonder if the only problems are that the rack tail has moved up in relation to the rack, and the hour hand needs moving to 11:00 when it's striking 11?
 

sunnyd47

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I have just tested the clock again and it did not stop at 12.45, it struck once for 12 o'clock but allowed the 1 o'clock to strike once also as it should. This is the movement currently and it has just struck 2 o'clock.
 

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harold bain

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You may still need to adjust the racktail in relation to the rack, as well as the snail. Advance the hands, and watch as it drops at each hour. Pay particular attention to where it falls at 11, 12, and 1. At 12, the racktail should just clear the edge of the snail.
Adjusting this is by removing the cock that holds the intermediate gear, and raising the hour wheel/snail, and moving it by a few teeth.
 

shutterbug

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Your snail is advanced too far, and needs to be turned back a bit. As Harold alluded to, set the rack tail so it encounters the 11:00 spot right dead center. You'll have to remove that lower screw and pull off the bracket while you hold the wheel so it can't turn. Pull off the snail, and set it to the 11:00 position (do this right after it strikes, and stop the clock until you're done). Test it to be sure the tail falls in the center of the 11:00 position, then put the bracket back on. If you held onto the lower wheel and didn't allow it to turn, you'll be good to go :)
 

sunnyd47

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Thanks a to all, I have finally sussed it all out :Party:
I think that when you are repairing/playing with such a clock for the first time, the Ting Tang is quite a strange chime order that it messes a little with ones head, well, mine anyway.
 
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shutterbug

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Thanks a to all, I have finally sussed it all out :Party:
I think that when you are repairing/playing with such a clock for the first time, the Ting Tang is quite a strange chime order that it messes a little with ones head, well, mine anyway.
Yeah, you may be running to the front door a few times, but you'll get used to it:) Congrats on the successful repair!
 

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