Is this a Ph. Hauck?

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by pahel, May 12, 2019.

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  1. pahel

    pahel Registered User

    Jul 26, 2008
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    Hi all,
    aquiered a new 400 day project for restoration, unfortunately with some damaged teeth but I've found a spare part that would fit with some little alterations (from a JUF).
    It came with a 4-ball pendulum, which seems to be old (means pre WW2) but I'm not shure, if it belongs to this movement.
    One thing I've never seen before on 400 day clocks is that excentric nut on the frontplate to adjust the escapement arbor.
    thanks for ID help
    pahel
    1.jpg DSC01022.jpg DSC01024.jpg DSC01026.jpg
     
  2. Bod

    Bod Registered User

    Mar 10, 2019
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    Tentatively, going on my experience of 1 Hauck clock, the gimbal mount, and back plate say, yes.
    My example does not have the slotted eccentric escape adjustment in the front plate, only the back plate. Also mine is a disc pendulum, your ball pendulum looks to me very JUF.
    Your serial number is younger than mine, (pre ww1) so I would expect a disc pendulum, but there's no reason why yours shouldn't work with a suitable suspension.

    Bod
     
  3. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    #3 etmb61, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
    Hi pahel,

    The disk pendulum you have in this post Movement ID help please is what you need for this Hauck clock.

    The ball pendulum will go with the JUF movement. The entire base is also from a JUF clock.

    Eric
     
  4. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    #4 KurtinSA, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
    That does appear to be a Hauck...plate 1607 should be it. According to the repair guide, it might have come with disk pendulum or 4-ball. JUF had a patent for the 4-ball pendulum from 1909 to 1915, after which other manufacturers could make their own style. The saddle and upper block for the Hauck is quite different from other clocks.

    I don't believe the front plate eccentric is to be used for adjustment. I'm pretty sure the factory just made front and back plates more or less the same, and then drilled the specific holes needed for front and back. The arbor holes are all the same with the exception of the center arbor.

    Kurt
     
  5. pahel

    pahel Registered User

    Jul 26, 2008
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    hi all,
    thanks for answering, giving that additional information. I'm glad to have an appropriate movement for my disc pendulum now, the next challenge will be to get a base that would bring all of them together. For now, this JUF base will do.
    Kurt, I dont believe, that the eccentric nut in the front plate is for the reason you stated, as the front srew is on the arbor of the escapement wheel, the backside eccentric as usual for the anchor adjustment. however the eccentric on the front plate doesnt seem to make any sense. may be there where slightly different sizes of escapement pinions to achieve different gear ratio for speed adjustment ? other than this, I don't see any rational reason for this function.

    regards
    pahel
     
  6. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    pahel -

    You're right...the two eccentrics are not aligned. Could the front plate eccentric be something to adjust depthing of the escape wheel?

    Kurt
     
  7. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

    Jun 24, 2011
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    The front eccentric would be for depthing.
    The support pillars, finials and support plate are also JUF, so you'll need their Hauck equivalents (And to assemble the components correctly. The upper capitals are installed upside down.).
     
  8. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Hauck clocks typically don't have capitals for the support columns.

    Eric
     
  9. pahel

    pahel Registered User

    Jul 26, 2008
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    Hello,
    thanks for your contributions, still amazing that front eccenter. If it is for depthing, we talk about just the half of a millimeter as it is restricted by the arbor tolerance and why should there be used an eccenter for depthing ? that would cause problems between minute gear and escapement pinion.
    pahel
     
  10. Bod

    Bod Registered User

    Mar 10, 2019
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    Imagine. You have just discovered the hole for the end of the escape pinion, is a 1/2 of a hole out! The clock will not assemble. What to do? Foreman, breathing hellfire and brimstone...
    Drill bigger hole, fit eccentric adjustment, with pinion hole in the correct place. Once assembled, will be hardly seen, until 2019....

    Bod
     
  11. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    This is not a unique feature to Hauck clocks. I cannot say who introduced it, but I'm sure I've seen it in other German made gravity pendulum movements. Hauck started using it sometime before serial number 20794, which is the lowest number in my records I can confirm with it, through the end of their production. John Hubby was making notes about this feature in Hauck clocks several years ago, so he has better info.

    Kundo used front plate escape pinion depth adjustments in some form through the entire production of their full size clocks, first with an eccentric and then later with a peninsula.

    Eric
     
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  12. pahel

    pahel Registered User

    Jul 26, 2008
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    Thanks for answering, in fact, I've never owned a Kundo so it was new for me. Anyway Hauck clocks appear somewhat distinguished, may be to outlive the competition with the very prolific JUF production. This half-gimbal suspension with the non-attached upper block holding also seems to be a Hauck feature ?, however it tends to get lost in most cases as it is in my example. There is a pic of my self-made-solution until I get the original spare, after all it is running so far. I like Haucks for their nice dials and, in my opinion, they appear to be well made and durable.
    Please allow me to get back to this front eccenter issue as there seem to be a mistake in terminology: Does "depthing" mean horizontal/axial alignment of the escape wheel or is it for the interaction of escapement wheel and anchor ? if it is the latter one, why isn't it placed on the backplate as well, if the former, what's the use of an eccenter ??
    And by the way, could you roughly date this movement Nr. 12880 ?
    thanks
    pahel
    DSC01033.jpg
     
    etmb61 likes this.
  13. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    I this case depthing refers to the teeth of the pinion on the escape wheel arbor and those of the center wheel. I'm pretty sure that using an eccentric for this pre-dates 400 day clocks.

    The gimbal suspension was introduce by a clockmaker named Dauphin as an improvement for 400 day clocks. At the time it was implemented by Hauck. I posted an article about it some time ago from the DUZ (in German). F. Dauphin (Hauck) suspension

    Eric
     
  14. pahel

    pahel Registered User

    Jul 26, 2008
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    Thanks for providing that informative DUZ article (useful to have it in german, makes things easier) very helpful to see the component parts of it, so I'd just have to find the part in fig c, which appears simliar to the standard block of bracket mounts without gimbal suspension.
    Now the front eccenter makes sense, there was a misunderstanding about its functional purpose.
    regards
    pahel
     

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