Is Movement a Total Loss?

[RAK]

First, my apologies (1) if this topic has come up before; (2) I don't have a picture handy. But a description should do to get things started. Will add photo as soon as possible.

I bought a nice (enough) wall clock that looks like a Waterbury "Montreal" with an 8-day, time only, E. N. Welch movement. As an aside, I have never determined if E. N. Welch had a name for this clock but have seen quite a number of them with Welch movements over the years and I would sure like to know what it was called.

I purchased it around a year ago on EBay and when it arrived it looked as expected and I thought "this was a good deal; thanks EBay". Then I tried to wind it. Ugh... something was terribly wrong. Took off the dial to find that the movement exploded. And I mean exploded, as in the front and back plates are badly bent and the spring is blasted out. So I think to myself, "did I miss something in the photos or description?". I'm not that un-observant, am I?

Well the nice thing about Ebay is that if you are "watching" an item it is really easy to bring it back up and look at the photos. And when I did, I saw the problem. It is an older clock (early-mid 1880's) and the movement is held together with pins. Except that the perfectly fine looking movement in the photo is missing a pin (or was it two? Wish I had the clock here now to double check). My guess is in shipping the spring overcame whatever force was still restraining the spring and the force of the spring expanding bent the plates and messed up whatever else is now wrong with it.

I suppose this is why I have heard over the years that if you're shipping a clock you should let the spring down first. Something I will be remembering to do when I ship a clock in the future.


SO, MY QUESTION IS... does anyone have any experience trying to straighten out bent brass plates? Or probably more appropriately, is this movement a total loss?

Thanks in advance, Bob

 

[Randy Beckett]

Bent plates can usually be straightened out and reused without too much difficulty. I would be more concerned with likely damage to gears, arbors, and pivots when the fully loaded movement came apart. Impossible to tell without pictures, but sometimes you get lucky.

 

[R. Croswell]

Not likely a total loss. Get it apart and remove as much as possible from the plates them lay them on an anvil or other flat iron surface and hammer out the bends. Will take a little effort but not that difficult. Just make sure each arbor has some end shake when it is back together. My greater concern is that you may have some bent arbors and damaged gear teeth.

RC

Yes, what Randy said - sorry.

 

[harold bain]

You won't know until you try putting it back together.

 

[RJSoftware]

No such thing as total loss. See antikythera machine.

The problem is time/money/effort. Sentimentality or lack there of is the real question.
Or lack of desire for ebay refund...

RJ

 

[bruce linde]

The problem is time/money/effort. Sentimentality or lack there of is the real question.
RJ

what he said...

we can't really assess the damage without seeing photos... but your choices are: take on the project (how are your clock repair skills? have you ever let down a mainspring? taken a movement apart? got tools?), find someone to take on the project... and/or shop ebay for a replacement movement.

 

[RAK]

Thanks to everyone with their answers so far. It is nice to hear that it is at least worth a try to straighten these out. That being said, if anyone has one of these time only Welch movements laying around collecting dust that they wish to get ride of, I am very interested in hearing from you! (I have another project clock that needs a movement like this).

Here are the photos of the problem movement. It may not be easy to see but not only is the top plate bent, the bottom plate has a bend in it too. And the culprit (I think) is that it was indeed missing two pins. The long straight top left pin is one I added after the fact....

Thanks again,

Bob

 

[Jasons34]

Looking at the pictures you should not have any problems with this at all. The large gear that holds the mainspring won't bend and as long as all the other gears are still in place between both plates the arbors shouldn't be bent. Just tear it apart and inspect everytging. Its,a time only so it's easy to work on

 

[Tinker Dwight]

I don't see any tooth damage. I'd first wrap some tie
wire around the spring, tightly, and disassemble it to see
what needs to be done.
Once off, you can likely bend by placing the plate on the edge
of a table and pressing down on it.
Work slowly. Don't try to fix all the bend at once. Do a little
and inspect to see if you are just bending some other part
than intended.
Tinker Dwight

 

[R. Croswell]

Do be careful, there's still some power in that spring, but once you get it apart you may find that the plates aren't bent at all. You might even wire a spoke of the wheel to the spring IN ADDITION TO tieing a wire tightly around the spring. You don't want things spinning or flying apart. If you can keep the wheel from spinning, you may be able to work the main arbor back in place and pin the plates together and wind it enough to reduce the spring to the diameter of the wheel or a bit less so it can be restrained with wire and let down properly and safely removed.

RC

 

[bruce linde]

looks totally workable... just go slow and carefully so nothing else gets damaged... especially the escape wheel, but all gears.

the only real risk is any power left in that mainspring... you might want to read up on 'how to let down mainsprings' elsewhere on this site...

good luck!

 

[Tinker Dwight]

You really want to contain the spring first. It won't
take much to bend one of the there pivots.
The side with the missing pin might return by spring
of the plate but the other side that is pinned has a
real bend near the pinned location.
Tinker Dwight

 

[BLKBEARD]

Might try putting a hose clamp around the spring, then as R.C recommended try to work the arbor back into position.

 

[R. Croswell]

In it's current situation, the best bet is to pull it to bits and make sure it works, before final reassembly.

But if you want to put it back together again and then pull it to bits again, go ahead, don't let me stop you.

The only reason I suggested trying to get it back together is so the spring can be wound and restrained normally then there would be no need to catch flying parts in an apron. Other than the risk to one's person, the main thing is to prevent the main wheel from spinning and raking the teeth.

RC

 

[Tinker Dwight]

One might use the wire to tie the main wheel to the
frame. That might be more reliable than the apron.
One might even use both.
Tinker Dwight

 

[RJSoftware]

Pull the pins, grab the mainspring (looks like a weaker 1 day spring (30 hour)) and pull the top plate off.
What is bent can be straightened out hey...!
RJ