International Time Recording Company

f.webster

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I have begun the restoration on an International Time Recording long case card recorder. I know that the dial isn't original and have found a PDF to correct that. I haven't been able to find the model number. The serial number tells me that it was shipped in 1918.

I am interested in beginning a conversation with folks that know about these machines. I have a lot of questions and nowhere to ask them. This project will require case, clock movement and card stamping restoration. I have searched the "publications" here and learn much about the company history; but, little is written about the machines themselves.

Thanks for your help!

20210526_082341.jpg 20210527_115946.jpg 20210529_100219.jpg
 

f.webster

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It would appear that there isn't anyone out there (yet) that would like to discuss the restoration of a International Time Recording Company clock.

Here is what I have found so far:
1. Based on the serial number (162957) it was shipped in 1918.
2. This is a "Long Case Time Recorder"
3.ITR became a part of Computing-Tabulating-Recording Company on its way to becoming IBM
4. ITR's main product line were mechanical time recorders invented and patented by Willard L. Bundy in 1888.

I found two fellows in the UK that have PDF files of ITR's Instruction Sheets, Data Sheets, Service Sheets, Serial Numbers logs, and dials. They also know about getting parts.

Looking to have a discussion about restoration if there are any NAWCC members with interest.
 

PatH

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ChimeTime

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I saw one of those in a Wintson-Salem, NC area antique store just this last weekend if anybody wants one...



I didn't look at the price, but looked like the type of clock someone here would want. Then I come online and what's the first thing I see ?
 
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senhalls

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I have had one of these clocks running for many years . Yours looks to be in very good / little wear condition . The overhaul of the movement is quite straightforward . I will suggest you change the springs to ones of .016" to .018" thickness . Originals are too strong and wear the great wheels to ruin .
 

f.webster

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Thanks to all!!

Pat : Good thought on the change of venue. I have read all the "Threads" and searched the publications. Interesting history but not a lot on who and how made. Patent search is next on my list.

Chime Time: I know that there has to be more than one! (lol). I am not collecting these clocks. I just enjoy that they are different than what you find at an average MART.

Senhalls: The springs ARE big. This movement doesn't seem to be worn too much. Because I have experience restoring music boxes and the Edison mechanical music machines, I don't have a problem handling them. I haven't figured the POWER needed to transfer time to stamp. I do want the stamp and time to both work.
 

ChimeTime

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I haven't figured the POWER needed to transfer time to stamp. I do want the stamp and time to both work.
That would be one solution to knowing what time your teens got home on Saturday night ! :emoji_yum:

The photo was intended to help with research on original clock face.
 

f.webster

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Thanks Chime Time: Over the weekend I found and downloaded a PDF of the original dial. Now I need to figure out how the two wind up and down indicators come through the dial face. Today I will figure if while replacing the original dial some "clockman" might have cut them off.

Still looking for someone that has this clock who is willing to share images and advice.
 

f.webster

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The first phase of this project has been to identify what is there and what is missing.

First I noticed a knob and a lock on the right side of the case. It was not attached to any mechanism within the case. It appears that it may have been used as a manual adjustment of some kind. Perhaps to change the ribbon color (black for on-time and red for late) or to synchronize the card and clock mechanisms. Some connection missing.

Next I listed a day of the week dial missing. There is a window in the case's front plate where it could be viewed. There are mounting holes and an advancing mechanism; however, no dial of back plate for it to be mounted on.

The dial face on the clock mechanism is not original. Somewhere along in this clocks life someone made a new pan and replaced the original. There are wound up and down indicators for the two springs that were indicated on the original face. The replacement does not show these.

After noting these, I am now ready to remove the mechanisms from the case.

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f.webster

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ManFromAbora: Thanks for the images! The dial face on my machine has been replaced and I have been trying to figure out if the wind up and down indicators come through the dial. This machine had ribbon installed and an extra spool in the bottom. I am not quiet to the point of stamping.

Lots of pictures.. very wise!
 

Toughtool

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My clock is much later. It apparently was shipped with the electrical synchronous motor conversion that eliminated the mainsprings. This conversion modification, called an RPQ, I understand was field installable. Also my face (which was defaced before I got it) does not have the wind key holes, and it has the "INTERNATIONAL", logo printed on it's face. I acquired this clock in 1967, as a gift from the Tallahassee FL Simplex guy, an Ex-IBMer from the 1950's. He left IBM to go to Simplex Time when IBM sold the Time Equipment division in December of 1958. The clock still works fine but has been hanging in the garage undisturbed for a while, judging from the accumulated dust.
There is no knob or lock on the side as you mentioned on to your clock but does have a cabinet lock on the front.
First I noticed a knob and a lock on the right side of the case.
The round objects above my front knob are just two steel pennies stuck to a neodymium magnet. This time recorder clock came out of a cotton mill in Moultry, Ga. The Oak door frame has numerous small holes where they probably pinned notices to employees using thumb tacks. I guess I need to clean it up and take some photos.

Here is a link to IBM's clock corner, where they produced a reproduction of an installation manual. I don't know if it was taken from the International Business Machines' manual or not. I.T.R. (International Time Recording) Service Instructions, No. 201, November 15, 1937. Form number 23-8349-0.
If yours is not working, I would be surprised. They were built to last a very long time.

https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/pdf/cc_2407CCE3.pdf

IBM International.jpg
 
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ManFromAbora

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I have begun the restoration on an International Time Recording long case card recorder. I know that the dial isn't original and have found a PDF to correct that. I haven't been able to find the model number. The serial number tells me that it was shipped in 1918.

I am interested in beginning a conversation with folks that know about these machines. I have a lot of questions and nowhere to ask them. This project will require case, clock movement and card stamping restoration. I have searched the "publications" here and learn much about the company history; but, little is written about the machines themselves.

Thanks for your help!

View attachment 656532 View attachment 656533 View attachment 656534
Just out of curiosity, what is the length of your pendulum? I ask because at some time in the past mine was modified and I’m not convinced it is original to my clock.
 
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senhalls

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f.webster , The wind indicators do not come through the dial . You are missing the very tip piece . Make from tinplate steel , a T shape about 3/8" wide and 3/8 tall . Plus or minus . Wrap the arms of the T around the brass tip you have there and the vertical leg is bent 90 degrees . Now parallel with the dial face , the T vertical will show through the slot in the dial . I have seen some painted red , but I didn't like the look of it .
 
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f.webster

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So here is an up-date on this project:

First, I found an original ITR dial ! It was in a box of bevel glass at a fellow clock restorer's shop. The dial was in good shape and the still on the original pan.

While removing the time and stamping mechanisms, I found a key on a fob. I was told that all the time clocks from the L & N (Louisville and Nashville) railroad yards in Louisville were destroyed. I will attach an image. I shared the image with the L & N Historical Association. Since then, I have talked with two retired employees. I learned from them that shop # 14 was the car barn where freight cars were repaired. It was on the north side of Floyd St. where the University of Louisville Stadium is now. There was a clock in each of the shops that surrounded the roundhouse; but, only one man that was in charge of winding. In shop # 2 (power shop) there were a couple of extras to swap out if one needed repair. So, it appears that not ALL of the time clocks were destroyed.

I have taken the case apart ( broken boards and trim), cleaned off soot and oils, cleaned the old finish and then rebuilt the case. The original (plate) glass in the door was carefully cleaned and put back into place.

Now here we are today looking at the time mechanism wondering how to let the power down of the two HEAVY springs. Bushing work is needed on several arbors. Someone suggested an old brace (hand drill), heavy gloves, face shield and a sheet of half inch plywood under my apron. The retaining clamps I have are too small. I have thought of wrapping and twisting an old coat hanger around them. Then fabricating a let-down tool using the winding T.

Suggestions and advice ?? Wise counsel is appreciated.

L & N Key fob.jpg ITR Dial.jpg
 

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