International Time Recording Co. Master Wall Clock

gleber

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I just acquired this 1920s era ITR Master Wall Clock. It is weight driven, with an electric motor to wind the weights. The original mercury pendulum has been replaced by two stainless steel cylinders. Other than the replaced pendulum, it seems mostly original. It "stands" (not mounted on the wall yet) approximately 65" x 23" x 9" (160 cm x 58 cm x 23 cm). It has a beautifully grained tiger oak backboard.

20190407_180512.jpg

Based on the information on this site: International Time Machines: Home Page, particularly this video it appears to be a 2nd generation, from roughly 1922 to 1927:

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The dial has a nice oak surround.

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More photos:

20190407_175951.jpg 20190407_164250.jpg 20190407_180606.jpg

The serial number was not embossed on the plate and the writing is no longer readable. The case has 355 stamped in the base plate - maybe a case style?

Any experts out there who can contribute more info to help narrow the date of mfg or model name, etc?

It has a single loop plate with a hole in it for mounting, which looks a little scary to me. Does anyone have mounting suggestions for a clock this large, since this my first of this size.

Thanks,
Tom
 

bruce linde

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if the loop hook seems in good condition, you can use a longer screw into a stud.

i also use these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JQZQLF9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

so what's with the weights? do they run it if the power goes out? i don't see a way to wind them.

and... the guy in the video has a rather nutty collection... i'm not sure i like the lights he's put in the cases, but the mercury pendulum that's been replaced with a two-bottles-of-vodka pendulum is pretty darn cool. :)
 

Kevin W.

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The motor seen above the clock movement winds these weights every 30 hours or so. Same movement used later as in my master 35 IBM clock. I have mine screwed into a stud at the top and bottom of the case. Great find, love it. These weights are approx 10 pounds each. Clock could run about a week with no power.
 

bruce linde

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Jealous… My Stromberg master is only power driven… I got a thing about weight driven clocks :)
 

gleber

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Thanks for the hanging tips. The loop plate on the back looks solid, but I don't think I want to use anything less than a good size lag bolt into a stud.

Yes, the clock is weight driven, and the motor lifts the weights so you don't have to do that manually - what will they think of next?! ;) And that's why there are no arbor holes. I think the single train is driven by both weights, but I haven't explored how that is all set up yet. I'll post a video once I get things set up. After a brief test, it is noisier than I thought it would be.

Tom
 

bruce linde

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stainless deck screws are plenty strong enough.

and, yes, ka-thunk loud. i have my gents C7 plugged into a programmable wireless wall outlet that powers up just before 9am and powers down just before 9pm... because it’s in the master bedroom.

the stromberg has a power supply, but i just stop it manually... was going to get a,programmable outlet for it but it will actually run for 45 minute or soy once power is removed. i suppose i could time it and adjust the programming, but i don’t mind doing it...

bottom line is they don’t run at night... just during the days
 

Kevin W.

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Mine runs in the room next to my bedroom, its not loud, even when winding. Very cool clocks.
 

John Lippold

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Gleber: Have you looked on the bottom of the top board/dust cover, also on the top of the clock where the connections are and on the back of the clock for a paper tag which would indicate the date, serial number, model and additional information about your clock?
 

John Lippold

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The serial number was not embossed on the plate and the writing is no longer readable. The case has 355 stamped in the base plate - maybe a case style?

Any experts out there who can contribute more info to help narrow the date of mfg or model name, etc?
Thanks,
Tom
The 355 number is the case number, it should also be stamped someplace on the door. A unique case number was stamped on each piece of the clock case to insure all the pieces could be fitted to each other as the case was being assembled.

My best guess is your clock was likely shipped from the factory in the second quarter of 1922 with a serial number near 231000.

Your clock may be a model "D" or "D-60". The "D" indicating it's weight driven and "60" indicating it is 60 beat. Your clock is plain impulse in that it sends a single electrical impulse to its secondary clocks once a minute. It is not a model "S" because it does not have the correct contact configuration to be so. When new, if it is a model "D-60", it cost $175.00 plus $35.00 for the optional mercurial pendulum for a total of $210.00.

Hope this is helpful,

John
 
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gleber

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Thanks for the detailed analysis! The previous owner also thought it was a D-60 too, but didn't know much more about it. Yes, as you point out only 1 contact.

The power cord is an obvious replacement. It looks like a section of a modern two prong interior use extension cord. Would the original have been rubber insulated wires with a braided fabric exterior? Were they using the standard plug style used today (other than the polarized spades) or something different?

Thanks for the price information. Based on what I paid, the stock market would have been a much much better investment...

Tom
 

Kevin W.

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Imagine what it would cost in todays dollar. I think i did well on mine, paid 300, and 100 to ship it to me. Was a local buy.
 

John Lippold

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Thanks for the detailed analysis! The previous owner also thought it was a D-60 too, but didn't know much more about it. Yes, as you point out only 1 contact.

The power cord is an obvious replacement. It looks like a section of a modern two prong interior use extension cord. Would the original have been rubber insulated wires with a braided fabric exterior? Were they using the standard plug style used today (other than the polarized spades) or something different?

Thanks for the price information. Based on what I paid, the stock market would have been a much much better investment...

Tom
Power to the master clock would have been supplied from a Master Relay Cabinet which was probably located in another room. The power wiring, as well as the wiring to drive the secondary clocks, would have been run from the master clock through metal conduit to the Master Relay Cabinet. The Master Relay Cabinet contained at least one master relay, snap switches, a stepping key, resister units, fuses, connectors, etc. all mounted on a ebony asbestos board and installed in a heavy sheet steel locking cabinet.
 

gleber

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Sounds like overkill compared to the current extension cord hack. The top of this cabinet behind the molding has a pair of inline glass fuses, which look modern in a ceramic holder, which looks closer to period. I'll have to take a photo of that. It doesn't look like it was modified other than the added power cord.

Thanks again.

Tom
 

DontheBrewer

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Gleber - it looks like a model 262. I had to have the motor rewound on mine along with replacing all the grease in the gear assemblies that do the winding as it had gotten solid. Now it keeps perfect time. Just wish I could find some mercury to make the pendulum original! Here is photo of mine. I've also attached several other files you might find useful. don 015.jpg
 

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Toughtool

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Bruce, Yeah, I know this comment is two years old. Gleber's clock looks great but his weights are uneven.

if the loop hook seems in good condition, you can use a longer screw into a stud. i also use these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JQZQLF9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
so what's with the weights? do they run it if the power goes out? i don't see a way to wind them.
I certainly wouldn't use those Amazon hangers to mount this clock. I have a 1/4 inch diameter lag bolt into a stud for mine. Here are the installation instructions (pages 2,3, and 4) from the ITR Service Instructions # 222, from IBM's clock corner, at: https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/pdf/cc_2407MCE1.pdf

You asked about the weights. IBM weight driven clocks use a differential gear system [similar to a car's rear end] to keep the applied weight to the movement while the motor winds the weights up.

A friend of mine just got a master with two steel cylinders installed inside of the pendulum jars instead of mercury. Apparently shippers do not want to ship mercury because of the hazard. The only safe way to transport mercury is in a sealed iron container. Mercury does not react to iron.

He could not regulate the clock as it was too fast and already at the end of his rod thread adjustments. I suggested he remove the steel cylinders and replace them with lead shot. He asked about putting chrome plated BB's for a shiny look. According to the atomic weight of iron (Fe, 26) lead (PB, 82) and mercury (Hg, 80 ), steel is too light. I suggested lead would be the heaviest. Seems the light pendulum bob's weight wasn't enough to offset the pendulum rod and glass jars center of mass. Iron is only about 1/3rd the weight of lead or mercury, per given volume. He put lead shot in the jars and was able to regulate his clock. The clock needs about 10 pounds of weight in it's pendulum bob.
 

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bruce linde

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i did add a small block underneath mine to help support it, out of sight and screwed into a stud. :)
 

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