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Interesting Hammie Dial and Hands

John Cote

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I picked this little beauty up last week in a hawk shop in Northern Indiana. It is 16s and a four footer. I thought the hands were neat for a Hammie too.

36.jpg
 

Jim Haney

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John,
Because you are mainly a Illinois collector I can take that old Hamilton dial off your hands for a profit.:D

Seriously, I believe that dial is a Swiss reproduction made in the 20's or 30's. The grainy texture is the reason that I am suggesting this.:(

If you have a picture of the back and it has the splattered look I can tell.:confused:
 

John Cote

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John,

Seriously, I believe that dial is a Swiss reproduction made in the 20's or 30's. The grainy texture is the reason that I am suggesting this.:(
Jim,

I know the type of dial early multicolor repro you are talking about. There is one on eBay right now. The reproductions did not have this look. The back of this dial is American all the way with a flat porcelain look and solder around the seconds bit. This one is original. I don't believe any of these multicolor dials were actually made by Hamilton, but this is as original as any Hamilton Multi you will ever see.
 

John Cote

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John,

Beautiful picture of a great find.

Guess I gave up on Pawn shops too early.
Rhett,

I was telling Glen last weekend that I was not finding anything good anymore and I was about to give up. Then this week I found a really rare 18s Illinois in a jewelry shop in Michigan and this dial in the pawn shop. I guess we have to keep looking my friend.
 

Fred Hansen

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Great find John and that's one of the best looking Hamilton fancy dials I've seen!

If you don't mind I've dropped a link to this thread as "Fancy 16 size dial" in the Hamilton index thread here ... https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=38729

I think what Jim noticed of the grainy appearance to the dial may be just a result of your photo being so darn sharp and that it is shown here at 800 by 800 pixel size. Its a terrific dial and that photo really brings it to life here ... it feels almost like I could reach out and touch it through the computer screen!

Fred
 

John Cote

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I think what Jim noticed of the grainy appearance to the dial may be just a result of your photo being so darn sharp and that it is shown here at 800 by 800 pixel size. Its a terrific dial and that photo really brings it to life here ... it feels almost like I could reach out and touch it through the computer screen!
Fred,

Thanks for the kind words. Dials are a lot easier to shoot than movements. This looks similar in manufacture to some of the Elgin and Wally dials of the time with the raised gold goo-gaa's. It is a lot different than the two green 18s dials I have seen recently.
 

Jon Hanson

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I was wonder the same thing, Jon. Is this the fortunate survivor of a scrap job? If so, I can see why it didn't get hammered! :confused:

Regards! Mark
to buy a loose movement and dial, naked, in a pawn shop UNDAMAGED?
 

Jim Haney

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Bryan,
Each 16s had varying dates for converting to the 3 foot dial I use 870,000 as a general rule but the 950 went up to 1,020,000 and some of the 976 and 978 cut off about 840,000.

There is a post by Don Dahlburg on this board with a chart identifying each grade.

Are we off topic yet?:confused:

John,
You are going to have to start taking regular pictures so it doesn't look like we can see thru your dial.:D
Thanks
 

M. Cross

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to buy a loose movement and dial, naked, in a pawn shop UNDAMAGED?
I did an 18s 17j Rockford 930 once a couple years ago, so yes, it's possible. Perfect dial too, and it cleaned up and is running at this time in my collection. Had to find a case for it, but an 18s silveroid case did the job.

Regards! Mark
 

Kent

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Bryan:

To add to the fine information posted by pocwatjim, the serial numbers of 16-size Hamiltons jump from 900,000 to 1,000,001 (with 18-size watch serial numbers in-between), so the fact that the 950 was fitted with a four-foot dial up to 1,020,000 wasn't that much of a stretch. In fact, 856,000 was the last 950 built until 1,020,001 was made. In actual years, the difference was the change of the year from 1913 (856,000) to 1914 (1,020,001).

As noted above, Hamilton's pocket watch serial numbers weren't assigned in strict chronological order. Instead, huge blocks were allocated by watch size. If you check the various published serial number lists,

Serial Number 1 - 194,000
Serial Number 194,001 - 501,000
Serial Number 501,001 - 923,000
Serial Number 923,001 - 1,513,600
Serial Number 1,513,601 - 4,523,000 & Letter Prefix Serial Numbers

you'll find the following:

- - - - - -1 - - - - 49,950 18-size
- - 49,951 - - - - 50,000 Unknown
- - 50,001 - - - -85,000 16-size
- - 85,001 - - - 300,000 All 18-size (except HWW models)
- 300,001 - - - 400,000 All 16-size
- 400,001 - - --700,000 All 18-size (except Ball models)
- 700,001 - - - 900,000 All 16-size
- 900,001 - 1,000,000 All 18-size
1,000,001 - 1,400,000 All 16-size
1,400,001 - 1,450,500 All 18-size
1,450,501 - 1,500,000 Unknown
1,500,001 - 1,750,000 All 16-size
1,750,001 - 2,300,000 12-size & Other
2,300,001 - 2,655,300 All 16-size (2,655,301 - 2,900,000 not shown)

It's a fairly safe bet that 100,000, 200,000, 300,000 or 400,000 of one size watch weren't made before making similar numbers of another size of watch. Examination of the Hamilton production ledgers shows that within runs of a grade, there can be several years of variation. Just to demonstrate how difficult it is to come up with an accurate production date based upon a serial number range, this Scan From A Hamilton Production Ledger Page shows that the 992s within the tiny range of 786001-786020 were finished and sold almost two years apart. Thus, attempts to use serial number vs. date lists (created by using the average number of watches produced over a period of years) as anything other than gross indicators of date of production are flawed to a greater or lesser extent. In general, we think of serial number lists (not just for Hamilton, but for other watch manufacturers as well) to only be accurate within a year or two at best, and recognize that there are numerous exceptions wherein which the dates may be off as much as 3 years or more.
 

Ralph Porter

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My guess is that this dial is American-made, a product of the O'Hara Dial co. which began in Waltham, Mass. I believe a characteristic feature of their ornate dials was the ruby colored gem-like accents seen on this one at 3, 6, 9, and 12 positions along the outer edge. There was an article about the company in the Bulletin back in April, 2007 but I don't recall if it mentioned the ruby accents. Any other thoughts on this?

I would also be pleased to help an Illinois collector be free of this fine Hamilton piece!
Thanks,
Ralph Porter
 

John Cote

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My guess is that this dial is American-made, a product of the O'Hara Dial co. .... Any other thoughts on this?

I would also be pleased to help an Illinois collector be free of this fine Hamilton piece!
Ralph,

I'll let you know when I am ready to part with it. Unfortunately, although many people may know me as an Illinois collector, I have a slightly broader range of interests. :D

When I get home at the end of the week I will take a picture of the back of the dial and post it. I know it is not marked O'Hara. The ruby markers do remind me of a lot of Waltham dials.
 

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