Interesting damaskeening patterns

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by haneyk, Nov 25, 2007.

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  1. haneyk

    haneyk Registered User

    Apr 15, 2007
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    I just picked up the below Waltham watch on eBay. When I got it, I noticed that the damaskeeing on the movement was in the shape of stalks of corn! I've never seen that before. Let's see your watches with interesting patterns on them. I'm especially interested to see if anyone else has patterns of actual objects and not just abstract designs.

    Kevin
     

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  2. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Nice watch Kevin and great idea for a topic! I'm looking forward to seeing what is to come in this thread.

    I like the Waltham 1883 model P.S. Bartletts and have seen some neat damaskeen patterns on these but haven't studied these so am not sure if there are many out there like yours or not.

    Fred
     
  3. haneyk

    haneyk Registered User

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    Thanks Fred! The best part about it is that I got it for only $73 (and it runs!)! Here's a pic of the front.
     

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  4. Paul Regan

    Paul Regan Registered User

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    Here is a sample of a "pin wheel" Crescent St. Paul
     

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  5. Jon Hanson

    Jon Hanson Registered User
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  6. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Registered User
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    Love this thread.

    I have often heard that this plate design was by for the best "Canvas" that the men and women in that deapartment had to express their art.

    Keep them coming!

    Jeff Hess
     
  7. terry hall

    terry hall Registered User
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    I wuz beat to it.... :cool:

    I see Jon has posted the scan of the Chapter 149 poster, which is one heckuva representation of the various patterns on the 1883 movements...

    The scan does not do the award winning poster justice!!!:clap:
     
  8. Jon Hanson

    Jon Hanson Registered User
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    maybe friend Terry could "blow up" the poster for a better view of the finishes?
     
  9. terry hall

    terry hall Registered User
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    jon
    it may take a different scan to enlarge...

    i saved the image to desktop from the url

    when i zoomed in, the resolution deteroriated to where the patterns were not clear...

    send an larger electronic copy and i will try....

    poster will not fit on my scanner...
     
  10. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I have had to take large images to a service center like Staples to get them scanned. Bill Tapp may have the full size original image for the poster print.
     
  11. Nigel Harrison

    Nigel Harrison Registered User
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    Hi Guys,

    Here is a frostie, I have not seen this pattern too often.

    Regards, Nigel.
     

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  12. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I really like the frosted and damaskeened patterns like this pair.

    409.jpg

    However they all look pretty nice in the higher grades. This private label is a favorite and seems to me to be a higher grade than it shows in the gray book listing.

    52.jpg

    This one is my favorite of all of them though. It made to the cover of the Bulletin a couple of years ago. It has a few extra jewels added by a Waltham employee.

    244.jpg


     
  13. Bill Tapp

    Bill Tapp Registered User

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    Here is a much larger Jpeg taken from the final pdf that went to the printer of the 149 Poster. The file is almost 1 megabyte so be patient. I was going to post a link to the pdf until I noticed it is 150mb. You should be able to zoom in and see individual watches pretty well. Please remember that the poster is copyrighted.

    53.jpg
     
  14. HenryB

    HenryB Registered User

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    Bill

    I was fortunate enough to pick up one of these posters from Jon and
    and have this poster proudly hanging in my office at work.

    Great conversation piece.
     
  15. Paul Regan

    Paul Regan Registered User

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    That 3.0m one is as good as any 21J 72. Well, almost. Paul
     
  16. haneyk

    haneyk Registered User

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    Yes guys, those are some nice pics and interesting patterns! I still can't believe, though, that I own the only watch in existence that has patterns of real objects on it... Has anyone ever even SEEN any others?
     
  17. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Hi Kevin -

    I know for a fact that some of the United States Watch Co. of Waltham movements have objects in decoration. The ones I have in mind are what are called "acid etched" decoration, and usually these have flowers in the pattern but I have also seen butterflies and mermaids included in the pattern.

    Here is one of my favorite 1883 model Walthams, it has a frosted finish but with some nickel damaskeen and what looks like a pair of "fans" at either end of the design ...

    54.jpg

    Fred
     
  18. Jon Hanson

    Jon Hanson Registered User
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    There are many with "objects" but exiotic finishes and contrasts are much more desireable.
     
  19. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    There are some with pictures of trains engraved on the movement. I have been trying without success to find one to post. Maybe someone with a better memory can remember the grade name.

    (Not a Waltham.)
     
  20. mikeh

    mikeh Registered User
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    The first one that comes to mind for me is the crest and beaver on the various grades marked for the CPR.

     
  21. Nigel Harrison

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    Here is a link to an Illinois Railroader 18s KW that sold recently on ebay. It has the train engraved on the movement and is quite collectible.

    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RARE-1874-Illinois-Train-Gold-F-11J-Size-18-Sp-Dial_W0QQitemZ170170092686QQihZ007QQcategoryZ10308QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    Regards, Nigel.
     
  22. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    That's the one I was thinking about. The grade name Railroader is not indexed in the Illinois database. You need to be smart enough to remember Grade 4 is the Railroader. :mysad:
     
  23. terofpa

    terofpa Registered User
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    I thought I'd revive this post with a picture of my Rockford. Can we keep this post going?

    ter
     

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  24. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Thanks for the reminder Mike!

    Here is an example of the Waltham "Canadian Pacific Railway" in the 21J OF model 1892 version ...

    1.jpg

    Fred
     
  25. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
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    Here is a pic of my frosted model 83.

    Tom
     

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  26. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
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    And here is a pic of my gold flashed model 83
     

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  27. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

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    And a Columbus Ruby isn't bad either:

    Cheers,
    Stan
     

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  28. Jon Hanson

    Jon Hanson Registered User
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    IS THIS ONE LISTED IN SAM KIRK'S DATA BASE?

    THANKS for the scan.
     
  29. Steven Mercer

    Steven Mercer Registered User
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    The good thing about collecting Waltham Model 83's is you never get tired of looking for unique damaskeening in frosted, nickel, gilt, gold flashed or tu-tone patterns.

    http://www.nawcc-mb.com/pictures/file-820%20tu-tone%20movement.jpg
     
  30. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Steve,

    It may be good for you, but what does your wife think?

    Interesting watch. Too bad it's a LOW.

    Merry Xmas and Happy Holidays from your friend a little further north,

    Greg

    P. S. I just noticed that the serial number is too high for your collection. Better sell it to me now or I'll tell you know who!
     
  31. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    I've always like this one:

    http://hometown.aol.com/gfrauen10/ag8fw.jpg
     
  32. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

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    > IS THIS ONE LISTED IN SAM KIRK'S DATA BASE?

    Jon,

    Yes it is. I added it to a Columbus thread about a year ago.

    Cheers,
    Stan
     
  33. sderek

    sderek Registered User
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    #33 sderek, Jun 25, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2009
    This thread has been dead for a while. Anyone else have any to add? I just found this movement with an interesting movement with frosting and damaskeening. Looks like the Star of David.
     

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  34. Nigel Harrison

    Nigel Harrison Registered User
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    I was just reading through this old post and as well as the Illinois grade 4 Railroader, I thought I would mention that Waltham had a model 1892 with a train on the movement as well, it was labelled 'Waltham Standard' on the movement and was 19 jewels with beautiful pinwheel damaskeening. Only 125 made I believe. Not that these trains were damaskeened onto the movement, they just look great!
     
  35. ben_hutcherson

    ben_hutcherson Registered User
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    Since this is back at the top, I'll add in three more Crescent Sts.

    5726772.jpg

    5513727.jpg

    3303946.jpg
     
  36. Nigel Harrison

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    Yes nice high grade pieces Ben.
     
  37. Gimparoo

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    Beautiful Watches!

    here is one I bought from Fred....

    Mark
     

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  38. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User
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    #38 pmwas, Mar 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
    As I can see Walthams dominate the thread, and for a good reason :)
    Actually I'll wait with the main course until it's balance finally arrives (and it is getting annoyingly late), so for now... a little apperitiff.

    xyzzytom_215656

    Just a fairly common Lady Waltham grade, ans adjusted ladies movement with gold settings, gold balance screws and center wheel and spectacular finish. It has very nice, bright plates.
     
  39. Gimparoo

    Gimparoo Registered User
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    Pmwas,
    a very beautiful Waltham, the light hits it just right and shows off the work well....

    my last post here, plenty to show by us all...

    A Waltham No. 87 PSB.
     

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  40. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Here is a Waltham '83 model grade 40 that I am pretty pleased with --
    6008285.jpg
     
  41. Jerry Treiman

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  42. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User
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    Yes! I've got the hinting version, only it's waiting for a balance wheel :(
    I hope it finally arrives this week...
     
  43. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    Well Jerry, without hesitation, I'd have to vote your 1894 model as "poster child" for 12s Maximus grade. Gorgeous.
     
  44. Daniel W.

    Daniel W. Registered User
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    One of my favorite Crescent Streets. It really pops in hand but the center circular pattern don't catchup real good in pictures. 005.jpg
     
  45. Daniel W.

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    And who could forget this classic. AT&Co. 002 (1).jpg
     
  46. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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  47. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Getting back to the original post with Fleur De Lys or wheat sheaves, it is not possible to make those patterns with a damaskeening machine. I suspect they are photo etched like the acid designs on the U.S. Watch Co. Waltham watches were with the fancy flower and vine patterns. It is either that or hand engraving to get realistic objects. Damaskeening patterns are all mathematical functions even though they can have edges and pattern changes all over the place.
     
  48. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User
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    OK, the balance arrived from the USA. Just a bit of pivot straigntening and it's ready to be shown here:

    http://imageshack.com/a/img31/1515/4s7q.jpg

    Shame it's not origina;, but at least a more or less correct Waltham HQ balance :)
     
  49. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Do you pan to polish and/or plate the wheel train? This example could use a bit of work, but I think it is all original. The termination of the balance arm on the rim is a quality indicator, the fillets being higher grade.
    Movement.jpg
     
  50. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User
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    #50 pmwas, Mar 28, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
    The movement looks very well and I'll leave it be. Just case it and I already have found a beautiful case for it.

    As for the balance - like i thought, the arm shape is wrong, because mine in newer (or of lower grade).

    What I managed to get for this watch is a 19j Riverside grade balance one of my friends found in his stock...
     

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