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Inherited old pillar and splat mantle clock

Information on clock

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Robbie Pridgen

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Aug 18, 2019
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[Hello All, My wife and I have acquired this nice old clock that no longer has a label. Maybe a Bartholomew or Seth Thomas? When I start the pendulum it runs for a minute or two then stops. Probably needs cleaning and oiling. Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you, Robert

327802C0-56EC-4412-84E5-ACD0C636DD3E.jpeg 97FD7886-730C-4108-A825-EA8F35D25D55.jpeg E3B1CC98-939E-4F9D-8E23-6917ECD60FB8.jpeg D9AB4FD6-40A6-4856-8F4B-6FA0076428F2.jpeg 2EDC25BA-9736-4060-97E2-FB0BFC470D00.jpeg
 

Uhralt

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Sep 4, 2008
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Welcome to the Message Board! This is a very nice clock! Does it have a wooden or a brass movement? It would be helpful if you could show us a picture of the movement. For that, you would have to remove the hands and the dial. Not hard to do if you are careful.
Uhralt
 
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Robbie Pridgen

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Aug 18, 2019
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Is it wound?

Is the time between the tick and the tock even? If not, see Beat Setting 101

If it is wound and in beat, a we'll need more info and probably need a photo of the movement with the dial off.

Tom
Thank you for your advice Tom! I’ll check this weekend and try to safely take a photo. I do remember that it’s wound with both weights suspended. Robbie
 

Robbie Pridgen

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Aug 18, 2019
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Welcome to the Message Board! This is a very nice clock! Does it have a wooden or a brass movement? It would be helpful if you could show us a picture of the movement. For that, you would have to remove the hands and the dial. Not hard to do if you are careful.
Uhralt
Thank you Uhralt! The gears are wooden. I’ll try to get a photo of it without the face and hands this weekend. Robbie
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Nov 26, 2009
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[Hello All, My wife and I have acquired this nice old clock that no longer has a label. Maybe a Bartholomew or Seth Thomas? When I start the pendulum it runs for a minute or two then stops. Probably needs cleaning and oiling. Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you, Robert

View attachment 545730 View attachment 545731 View attachment 545732 View attachment 545733 View attachment 545734
You have inherited a rather nice American wooden works clock.

This type of clock is referred to in the typical collector's parlance as a "transition clock" in the belief that it served as a transitional style between the pillar and scroll and pillar and splat. That's probably a misnomer, then. These clocks have been discussed elsewhere on the Message Board (as well as in the horological literature). For a few examples of previous discussions on the MB, follow these links:

transitional clocks

Truly transitional?

Another truly transitional clock???

They were made by a number of different makers. Pix of the movement may allow for the identification of who made it.

It may have had carved pineapple finials. The tops of the "chimneys" (those square things flanking the splat) would have a dowel hole in them if the clock once had them. However, they didn't always.

The 1/2 columns (sometimes 1/4 columns) and splats may be stenciled, as is yours, carved or less frequently, mixed with a carved splat and stenciled columns. I especially like the stenciled eagle rampant splat on yours. It's killer. Do nothing to the columns and splat. That decoration is a scarce survivor often screwed up in misguided attempts to clean it or restore it.

These clocks usually had a painted wood dial as does yours. Unfortunately, someone did a rather inept retouching of the numerals and chapter ring. However, the nice polychrome and raised gilt gesso spandrel (corners of the dial) decoration survives. Do nothing to it.

The lower glass, though flaked, appears to be original. I think I would leave it be. NEVER try to clean the back of the glass.

It should have a 30 hour time and strike weight driven wooden works. There are rare examples with 8 day ww and even brass works.

Overall, a nice crusty clock from the 1830's. Enjoy.

RM
 
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Robbie Pridgen

Registered User
Aug 18, 2019
40
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Raleigh
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You have inherited a rather nice American wooden works clock.

This type of clock is referred to in the typical collector's parlance as a "transition clock" in the belief that it served as a transitional style between the pillar and scroll and pillar and splat. That's probably a misnomer, then. These clocks have been discussed elsewhere on the Message Board (as well as in the horological literature). For a few examples of previous discussions on the MB, follow these links:

transitional clocks

Truly transitional?

Another truly transitional clock???

They were made by a number of different makers. Pix of the movement may allow for the identification of who made it.

It may have had carved pineapple finials. The tops of the "chimneys" (those square things flanking the splat) would have a dowel hole in them if the clock once had them. However, they didn't always.

The 1/2 columns (sometimes 1/4 columns) and splats may be stenciled, as is yours, carved or less frequently, mixed with a carved splat and stenciled columns. I especially like the stenciled eagle rampant splat on yours. It's killer. Do nothing to the columns and splat. That decoration is a scarce survivor often screwed up in misguided attempts to clean it or restore it.

These clocks usually had a painted wood dial as does yours. Unfortunately, someone did a rather inept retouching of the numerals and chapter ring. However, the nice polychrome and raised gilt gesso spandrel (corners of the dial) decoration survives. Do nothing to it.

The lower glass, though flaked, appears to be original. I think I would leave it be. NEVER try to clean the back of the glass.

It should have a 30 hour time and strike weight driven wooden works. There are rare examples with 8 day ww and even brass works.

Overall, a nice crusty clock from the 1830's. Enjoy.

RM
Thank you very much for all the info and advice RM! I will take a few more pictures of it and post this weekend. Thanks again, Robbie
 

Robbie Pridgen

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Aug 18, 2019
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You’re most welcome.

RM
Good morning and Happy weekend to all! I took the advice from all three of you and took pictures of the wooden movements as the clock was in motion. It would only run for about a minute though no matter which direction I shimmed it or left it level. I’ll try to post a video on YouTube and post a link to it a soon as I figure out how to do it. BTW: The wife says the clock is HER inheritance so I worked on it early before she knew about it!!! LOL Thanks in advance, Robbie

5DCD2938-E87A-4663-864D-AC8CBEB4652F.jpeg 1F9210F7-D569-495F-A86D-D30C3EB4A73C.jpeg EA7B06E6-0B1C-4404-9C21-B51DFC3E99FB.jpeg 5B3DA229-7767-48C6-ADE3-973FAE16D2C2.jpeg 60803338-147B-47C9-821D-708703E59640.jpeg E46ED5A5-C7E0-48B2-AB55-7DE776C7F0D3.jpeg 080BD044-55A4-4D5C-B0A2-54C489D0A528.jpeg 083FF120-0153-465A-928A-78D44A4B481A.jpeg 7D9CD445-9811-416E-AF5F-C3ECB3FA7F76.jpeg F1950187-C520-4649-9574-76AC6B32E4F7.jpeg 3C097EB6-D355-470B-8F38-FAB59094F802.jpeg 589DBCDE-EF18-4C8E-B79F-1F1E21EDE9D0.jpeg
 

Robbie Pridgen

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Aug 18, 2019
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Good morning and Happy weekend to all! I took the advice from all three of you and took pictures of the wooden movements as the clock was in motion. It would only run for about a minute though no matter which direction I shimmed it or left it level. I’ll try to post a video on YouTube and post a link to it a soon as I figure out how to do it. Thanks in advance,

View attachment 546038 View attachment 546039 View attachment 546040 View attachment 546041 View attachment 546042 View attachment 546043 View attachment 546044 View attachment 546045 View attachment 546046 View attachment 546047 View attachment 546048 View attachment 546049
 

Uhralt

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Sep 4, 2008
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It looks like the verge is set a bit too far from the escape wheel so that it doesn't interact enough with the escape wheel teeth ( "the depth is too shallow"). You can move the verge closer by turning the brass disc in with the pin that holds the verge is inserted. The pin is located eccentrically so when you turn the disc you can move it to and fro the escape wheel. You need to take off the verge in order to do this. The disc may by stuck, in which case it need to be freed cautiously. Don't handle it by pushing on the pin. It might break off.

I also noticed that the retaining wire for the verge is not attached. It is turned to the left side and almost touches the count wheel. This wire should sit on the top of the pin that holds the verge and secures it this way. Put the wire in place as a first step and see if the clock will run now. Maybe that's all there is.

Uhralt
 
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gleber

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Jun 15, 2015
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It also seems a little out of beat. Does it run longer if the strike is not active? It seems like it stopped after the strike started, which means there should be minimal impact on the time train, but, before the strike the time train has to lift some levers and that takes some power to do that.

Tom
 
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Robbie Pridgen

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Aug 18, 2019
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It looks like the verge is set a bit too far from the escape wheel so that it doesn't interact enough with the escape wheel teeth ( "the depth is too shallow"). You can move the verge closer by turning the brass disc in with the pin that holds the verge is inserted. The pin is located eccentrically so when you turn the disc you can move it to and fro the escape wheel. You need to take off the verge in order to do this. The disc may by stuck, in which case it need to be freed cautiously. Don't handle it by pushing on the pin. It might break off.

I also noticed that the retaining wire for the verge is not attached. It is turned to the left side and almost touches the count wheel. This wire should sit on the top of the pin that holds the verge and secures it this way. Put the wire in place as a first step and see if the clock will run now. Maybe that's all there is.

Uhralt
Thank you for your quick response and advice Uhralt! I’ll carefully try both methods. I’ve noticed a wire that hangs to the left of the pendulum. When pulled it causes the clock to chime. Is this supposed to hang and be used to calibrate the chimes with the hour setting? Thanks again! Robbie
 

Robbie Pridgen

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Aug 18, 2019
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It also seems a little out of beat. Does it run longer if the strike is not active? It seems like it stopped after the strike started, which means there should be minimal impact on the time train, but, before the strike the time train has to lift some levers and that takes some power to do that.

Tom
It doesn’t seem to run any longer without striking, in fact barely a minute either way. I’ll post the other video that I took without the chime. Thanks Tom!
Yes, the purpose of the wire is exactly that. Are you sure you pulled it to make the clock strike? Usually you would push it upwards a little.

Uhralt

I definitely pulled it although GENTLY! I could try pushing it upwards instead. I’ll try to work on it again soon. Thanks!
 

gleber

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Yes, the purpose of the wire is exactly that. Are you sure you pulled it to make the clock strike? Usually you would push it upwards a little.

Uhralt
On my wood works, the wire is pulled down (it is on the back side of the arbor). On my brass Ogees or Gingerbread clocks, the wire is lifted (it lifts the count lever out of the slot.

Tom
 
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gleber

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The last video looks like it is simply loosing power. Could be gummed up, or the weight cord is binding in the top pulley slot or the pulley doesn't spin free, or there pivot hole wear or teeth wear and the teeth are not meshing properly. Those are the first things I would check. What size weight?

Tom
 
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Robbie Pridgen

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Aug 18, 2019
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On my wood works, the wire is pulled down (it is on the back side of the arbor). On my brass Ogees or Gingerbread clocks, the wire is lifted (it lifts the count lever out of the slot.

Tom
I haven’t tried pushing it upwards yet, but I can tell you for sure that it’s a wood works clock. Thanks Tom
 

Robbie Pridgen

Registered User
Aug 18, 2019
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The last video looks like it is simply loosing power. Could be gummed up, or the weight cord is binding in the top pulley slot or the pulley doesn't spin free, or there pivot hole wear or teeth wear and the teeth are not meshing properly. Those are the first things I would check. What size weight?

Tom
Good advice Tom! I did check the pulleys briefly and noticed the right one seemed stiff, but figured that it was because that particular weight was so close to the top therefore causing it to bind. Not sure about the weight sizes, but will check for markings or will attempt to weigh one soon. Please bear with me this week all because we’re renovating the outside of the house! It’s getting busy, but I’m also anxious for this beautiful clock to work by trying everyone’s GREAT advice!! Thanks Tom, Robbie
 

Robbie Pridgen

Registered User
Aug 18, 2019
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Raleigh
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Good advice Tom! I did check the pulleys briefly and noticed the right one seemed stiff, but figured that it was because that particular weight was so close to the top therefore causing it to bind. Not sure about the weight sizes, but will check for markings or will attempt to weigh one soon. Please bear with me this week all because we’re renovating the outside of the house! It’s getting busy, but I’m also anxious for this beautiful clock to work by trying everyone’s GREAT advice!! Thanks Tom, Robbie
PS: I’ll try to spend more time on it to inspect the weights & teeth.
 

Robbie Pridgen

Registered User
Aug 18, 2019
40
6
8
59
Raleigh
Country
Region
[Hello All, My wife and I have acquired this nice old clock that no longer has a label. Maybe a Bartholomew or Seth Thomas? When I start the pendulum it runs for a minute or two then stops. Probably needs cleaning and oiling. Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you, Robert

View attachment 545730 View attachment 545731 View attachment 545732 View attachment 545733 View attachment 545734
Hello all! I’m very happy to say that I have disassembled, cleaned, reassembled and oiled this clock and it is working beautifully! Thanks SO MUCH to all who have responded! I could never have done this without your priceless help! I’ve read many posts over the past year and taken my time doing this overdue maintenance on this wonderful heirloom. It has been nothing short of a pleasure and privilege, especially since I’ve loved antiques for my entire life. Please check out my updated post on WOOD MOVEMENT CLOCKS posted Saturday July 18. I have yet to check the operation of the strike because of signs previous damage that I’ve yet to repair. Again, Thank You All! Robbie P.
 

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