Ingraham Oriole Pendulum/leader assembly

mrpat2

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Hi guys Im working over this Ingraham Oriole movement. Looks to be a conventional T&S and after doing the usual bushings/etc Its all back together and Im not sure if this is right. The pendulum leader pivots on the fixed metal spring thru its hook, so in effect there are 2 pivot points. See photo... Am I supposed to close the hook on the leader so that the whole assy swings as one unit or is it ok that there are 2 pivot points?

Thanks in advance for any advice Im still learning (steep hill!)

20210802_184933.jpg
 

Willie X

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The pendulum rod has to be free to move around a bit in the crutch eye (or loop). If the rod is tight in the crutch eye, the clock will stop.

If you are speaking of the pendulum hook being made fast to the suspension rod, that needs to be loose also. It could be made fast and your clock would still run fine but the pendulum could not be easily unhooked. Unhooking the pendulum is an important feature of all clocks.

Note, I may not be understanding your question correctly. Willie X
 

mrpat2

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The pendulum rod has to be free to move around a bit in the crutch eye (or loop). If the rod is tight in the crutch eye, the clock will stop.

If you are speaking of the pendulum hook being made fast to the suspension rod, that needs to be loose also. It could be made fast and your clock would still run fine but the pendulum could not be easily unhooked. Unhooking the pendulum is an important feature of all clocks.

Note, I may not be understanding your question correctly. Willie X
Right I know about the ability to hook/unhook but at this is at right angles to the other, it doesnt really move in relation to the other. My question was where the rod connects to the suspension spring, the hook there allows some movement.
 

Willie X

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OK, I see what you are speaking of. Yes that hook is not supposed to be there. Probably best to replace the pendulum suspension rod with a new one. Or, you could temporarily straighten and flatten the top of the rod and rivet or solder it to the spring.

Note, there are quite a few clocks where the pendulum rod hooks directly to the bottom of the suspension spring but yours is not one of those.

Willie X
 

wow

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The suspension spring is not normal. All American clocks with that style movement have suspension units that are one. The spring is connected to the leader. On yours the leader has a hook on top that is not secure. Is that what you are asking about?

We posted together, Willie.
It should be like this: https://www.merritts.com/images/P111.JPG
 
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mrpat2

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The suspension spring is not normal. All American clocks with that style movement have suspension units that are one. The spring is connected to the leader. On yours the leader has a hook on top that is not secure. Is that what you are asking about?

We posted together, Willie.
It should be like this: https://www.merritts.com/images/P111.JPG
Yes! thats what Im talking about. I have noticed that most of the early american movements that Ive worked on have the suspension spring fixed to the leader. This one isnt. Should I just replace that with one I have ( I had ordered some in the past from timesavers)
 

shutterbug

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That's probably safe. You might have slight differences in thickness, but that should have minimal effect. You will probably have to jockey the length a bit, so start a little longer than you think you'll need.
 

mrpat2

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That's probably safe. You might have slight differences in thickness, but that should have minimal effect. You will probably have to jockey the length a bit, so start a little longer than you think you'll need.
Ok thats what Ill do!
 

mrpat2

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Ok thats what Ill do!
I still dont think I have it right. I made a new one, but shortened the spring to look more like the "original". See pics, the crutch rod seems like its too short most of the ones Ive seen reach the bottom of the plate strut in the middle but this one is higher up. If I use the std spring (got some from timesavers) the crutch impulses just below the spring and barely interfaces with the pendulum rod. In the pic shows the reative position of crutch rod vs original, the one I made, and a unmodified new one. Seems to me like the crutch should engage the rod further down. Does spring length paly an important part here? or do I have the wrong crutch?

20210806_201654.jpg 20210806_201035.jpg
 

Willie X

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The spring, between the bottom of the post and the top of the rod, needs to be about 5/8". The hook end of the rod is whatever it takes to get your clock to keep time.

Tip, you can leave the rod straight and tape the pendulum in place. This way it's easy to move it up and down to find the correct place for the hook. I usually leave the pendulum adjustment nut with about 1/4" to 3/8" of threads showing.

Even with the tape I still cut the rod longer than I think it will need to be. Here is a photo of the best shape for the hook. Willie X

20160611_111110.jpg
 

mrpat2

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The spring, between the bottom of the post and the top of the rod, needs to be about 5/8". The hook end of the rod is whatever it takes to get your clock to keep time.

Tip, you can leave the rod straight and tape the pendulum in place. This way it's easy to move it up and down to find the correct place for the hook. I usually leave the pendulum adjustment nut with about 1/4" to 3/8" of threads showing.

Even with the tape I still cut the rod longer than I think it will need to be. Here is a photo of the best shape for the hook. Willie X

View attachment 666558
So the crutch doesnt seem too short then?
 

Willie X

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No ... you could take out a little of that extra curl where the crutch turns West near the eye. Willie X
 
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shutterbug

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The crutch length became a long discussion a few years ago, and the determination from that discussion was that it makes almost no difference to the clock if the crutch impulses high on the hanger or low. Yours should be fine.
 

mrpat2

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The crutch length became a long discussion a few years ago, and the determination from that discussion was that it makes almost no difference to the clock if the crutch impulses high on the hanger or low. Yours should be fine.
Thanks guys this clock seems to have settled down and has been running fairly strong for almost a week now.
 

mrpat2

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AS I get ready to put the movement back in, I notice a hole in the strike lever that locks to the count wheel. Ive seen many clocks have a rod by which you could synchronize the strike. Is this one supposed to have one? And, anyone care to venture a guess as to the hole in the bottom of the case?

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Steven Thornberry

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AS I get ready to put the movement back in, I notice a hole in the strike lever that locks to the count wheel. Ive seen many clocks have a rod by which you could synchronize the strike. Is this one supposed to have one? And, anyone care to venture a guess as to the hole in the bottom of the case?

View attachment 668365 View attachment 668366
The hole in the "strike lever" is probably for a strike synchronization wire. I can't be sure that this one ever had one, but many of these wires do go missing for one reason or another.

The hole in the bottom of the case is possibly for a dowel or such to secure the clock for shipping. Many Ingraham clocks have these holes.
 

mrpat2

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I think I will make a wire for this. It will be fairly hidden, just below the dial.
 

mrpat2

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Ok back in the case with the strike wire. Any idea as to the correct orientation of the gong wire and where the strike hammer should hit? Right now its in front of the gong wire

20210828_191748.jpg
 

mrpat2

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Straight as in.. up from the center screw or down from the center screw? And how does the hammer get around the outer coils? The coils are all in one plane
 

Willie X

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Straight, as in loosen the screw and rotate the gong about 100 degrees clockwise.

Flipping the gong over will give you more room for the hammer but the gong may touch the movement.

Willie X
 
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wow

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Straight as in.. up from the center screw or down from the center screw? And how does the hammer get around the outer coils? The coils are all in one plane
Like Willie said, straight up. The hammer hits the straight part and will not hit the curved coils if you just turn it as is.
 

mrpat2

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Got that figured out. After turning the gong wire, there is enough room for the hammer to swing and strike properly. Lastly, there were these odd pieces in the case. The wood block looks like it is missing a piece. I cant see they have anything to do with the clock, but there are smarter people than me on this forum..

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shutterbug

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The wood piece might be part of a door latch. The others look like maybe a broken broach or lapel pin.
 

mrpat2

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the wood piece is glued, and it has an intact metal catch for the door already. Think Ill just leave them at the bottom of the case for now
 

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