Ingraham Escapement Problem

bangster

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This is an Ingraham I just got back disassembled from having some bushing work done by a third party

I put it together, set it up for a test run, but it wouldn't unlock and run a-tall..To try to break it loose from its paralysis, I moved the pallets away from the EW a bit, but it was too much and then it wouldn't lock on either pallet. Just spun free.

Moved them back in a bit, and got it to lock on entrance but not on exit. Fiddled with it a bunch more, pallet distance from EW, pallet distance from each other, until I finally lost track of what the hell I was doing, or was trying to do.

Here's the current situation. We're talking locks and drops. Entrance drop iswhen the tooth drops off the entrance pallet; the distance it falls is the "drop".
But with this 'un, there is no entrance drop, because when the tooth falls off the entrance pallet, it recoils instead of dropping. It recoils because as tooth falls off entrance pallet, the exit pallet ramps up a tooth, pushing the EW backwards.

I haven't the faintest idea how to begin dealing with this situation.

I await wisdom from y'all.
 

bangster

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Half deadbeat. Yeah, it's the same albatross been around my neck for months. See here.

But the nature of my situation should be sort of generic, I would think.

When tooth drops off entrance pallet, exit pallet should let a tooth pass by and grab the next one,
allowing EW to advance. Instead, exit pallet grabs the current tooth and prevents advance.
 
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Bruce Alexander

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I'm certainly no expert but it sounds like there might be a spacing problem to me.
How many teeth do the pallets span? Does the Verge look original? Are there any signs of wear at all?
Pictures or a short video could help.
 

Willie X

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Take a close-up photo of the situation with the entrance pallet tip to tip with the escape wheel. WIllie X
 

bangster

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I'll try dat. But I think I need to spread the pallets, to give the exit pallet breathing room.
 

R. Croswell

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I'll try dat. But I think I need to spread the pallets, to give the exit pallet breathing room.
If you open the pallets enough it may unlock but in the process you could end up spanning an additional tooth and all your lift angles will be wrong. Depending on what has already messed with, and if it even has its original verge, closing the pallets may be the best "trial" adjustment. Either way measure before changing anything.

I believe you have Conover's books, he describes a simple calculation to determine pallet spacing, or follow Willie's advice after we see the requested picture.

RC
 

kinsler33

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I second the advice about Mr Conover's books. When this has happened to me I've eventually cured the problem by adjusting the pallet spacing as directed, and then straightening the escape wheel teeth, which by this time may have hooks that are almost invisible (Mr LaBounty has a tutorial on escape wheels) and also by ensuring that the pivots on the escape wheel and on the verge aren't jumping around. These are more critical than pivots in the remainder of the clock.

The last time I ran into a mystery clock I finally decided to take Mr LaBounty's advice on wheel planishing. You smooth off the faces of your most-decent hammer and most-decent anvil and, with glancing blows, remove the 'set' from the teeth of each wheel, especially the great wheel. I don't know why this works, but my suspicion is that it gives you a lot more power in the rest of the time train, sufficient to overcome other quirks encountered there.

M Kinsler
 

R. Croswell

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Bangster, I suggest that you read through part of this thread Understanding Seth Thomas 89 Movement Variations mostly page four. You will find this picture at post #188. The thread has extensive conversation about setting up that Seth Thomas strip deadbeat but your Ingraham hald-deadbeat sets up the same way. If you are attempting a strictly visual approach, look carefully at this image. Note where the entrance pallet is - at the tip of an EW tooth, then note where the exit pallet is (on the imaginary circle scribed tip of the teeth, ie. the wheel diameter). That should put you close enough to run if if you get the verge to escape wheel depth set for a positive lock on the dead face.

RC

st-setup.jpg
 

kinsler33

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I dunno about anyone else, but I'm learning more about escapements by reading all this than I expected to. I'd forgotten about lift angles: a deadbeat, or semi deadbeat, looks a lot like our familiar recoil escapement but works quite differently, and who would've thunk that the angle of the edge of that thin anchor material would make such a difference?

Thank you, everyone.

M Kinsler
 

bangster

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Thanks for your help everbody. Here's the promised pic.

Ingraham mvt 2.jpg

I may have fixed it myownself, which slightly restores waning self-confidence. I opened it at the bottom (verge-to-EW distance), to let the exit pallet drop and catch the next tooth, then closed it at the top (pallet spacing) to allow the entrance pallet to lock on a tooth. So far, it's running nicely. Congratulate me, please.

:):)
 

kinsler33

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That's a crowded escape wheel. Did you count the teeth? It reminds me of a horrible 50-tooth Seth Thomas I nearly gave up on a year.

In any event, congratulations. Escapements look so simple, but their 'second order' issues--that is, issues that aren't at all apparent to the casual observer--are tremendously important.

(The term 'second order' derives from mathematics, specifically differential equations used to describe natural phenomena like mechanical motion. A second-order differential equation takes rates of change plus variations within those changes into account. Third-order d.e.'s whittle down the details even further.)

M Kinsler
I could have explained that better...
 
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Uhralt

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Thanks for your help everbody. Here's the promised pic.

View attachment 557680

I may have fixed it myownself, which slightly restores waning self-confidence. I opened it at the bottom (verge-to-EW distance), to let the exit pallet drop and catch the next tooth, then closed it at the top (pallet spacing) to allow the entrance pallet to lock on a tooth. So far, it's running nicely. Congratulate me, please.

:):)
Congrats, bangster!

Uhralt
 

kinsler33

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And I do hope that all these congratulatory messages so soon don't cause the clock to stop. If it does, consider planishing the time-train wheels. That's what helped me.
 
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