Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - Bim Bam

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Dave T, Apr 14, 2014.

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  1. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    Ingraham revisited... about two years later. I don't run this clock all the time, and after sitting not running for maybe two or three months, I wound it up and now it won't continue to run. Runs for maybe on full revolution of the escape wheel and then stops. The chime train is working fine. But, it appears to be lack of power. I thought maybe the mainspring was 'hung up' at full wind, so I let it down about half way, and it makes no difference. Can't see anything wrong, but I'm wondering if lubrication or lack of it might be the problem?
    Don't know exactly what to do about this one? :screwball:
    Hate to tear it down again. It was cleaned and lubed about two years ago and it's been running great, up til now.
     
  2. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    Dave, this is where you learn troubleshooting techniques.
     
  3. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    Thanks Harold,
    I've searched hi and lo for some guidance based on your advice. But I have yet to find anything that leads me to where to start. Only thing I can figure out is to tear it all down again. And inspect all the pivots and bushings, re-assemble just the time train without the mainspring to see if it's all turning freely. It does appear to me to be lack of power, but I really don't think so. The 4th wheel does have slight play in the bushings on both sides of the frame, and the third wheel has slight play on the back of the frame. Don't think this is really a problem either. All of the other bushings look great.
     
  4. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    Well, Dave, you are more likely to be successful if you can find the problem before stripping it down so that you already know what is needed. Finding the problem later is not likely to happen. It is either out of beat/escapement problem or a power problem. We can't tell you what it is without hands on checking.
     
  5. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    Harold, I can appreciate that. I'm just trying to learn how to tackle this sort of problem. One thing I have found is that the clearance on the leader was a little loose allowing the pendulum rod excess movement from side to side. I tightened it up a little and that seems to help. It now runs approx. 3 or 4 minutes before stopping.
    I do hate to continue to ask questions!
     
  6. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    That is how you learn, Dave.
     
  7. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    Looseness on the same side as the teeth mesh can be
    a problem.
    Depending on the pitch of the teeth, there can be
    more or less tolerance for wear of bushings.
    How about the pallets and escapement. Are you sure
    the are right?
    Tinker Dwight
     
  8. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    Thanks Tinker, As I mentioned there is some bushing wear and also some wear on the trundle pinions. But I've got clocks with a lot more wear than this one that run fine.
    So far all I've done to it is tighten up the loop end of the crutch arm a bit.
    But now the clock does run again for several hours at a time. And then it still stops occasionally.
    All I can figure is that after running this past couple of years faithfully, the wear in the movement is taking advantage.
    The escape wheel and anchor look good to me. The beat is good and all the teeth on that wheel look good.
    Ingraham Duplex Magic escape 1.jpg
     
  9. shutterbug

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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    If you rock the time train back and forth (with spring let down) and observe the bushings, I'll bet you'll find at least one pivot jumping back and forth excessively. A complete tear down, cleaning and bushing will probably solve the issue. My instinct is that the first time you were a little afraid of it, and took a shortcut or two :)
     
  10. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    Shutterbug, You've probably nailed it. I take a lot of shortcuts! I started too late in the clock repair business! Guess it's time for me to get into the bushing business. I did let the spring down and rock the train to test the bushings. It's mentioned earlier in this post. I have two loose bushings on the front and back of the 4th wheel and one bushing on the third wheel.
     
  11. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    I see that it is a strip dead beat. I think we need to see
    a series of pictures showing the escapement and anchor
    positions at the instant of drop.
    These are really sensitive to tiny adjustments of the anchors
    depth.
    I'd been thinking it was a recoil for some reason.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  12. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    Tinker, I'll try to get you a series of pictures. This clock's been on the test stand for about a week now, and I think it has a mind of it's own. And all I've done so far is make that slight adjustment to the crutch loop on the pendulum leader. I've never touched the anchor adjustment ever. First it wouldn't run at all, then I after that adjustment it did seem to help, and it ran for several hours at a time. Today, it stopped, and wouldn't start with the pendulum swing. Finally started, but it's done that two or three times today. I think the mainspring is sticking?? ie; no power? or minimal power.
     
  13. Hudson

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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    I'm not suggesting that you may have the same problem that I did, but it is one more thing to check!
    I have found a cracked gear on the minute hand shaft of at least two Ingraham Mantel clocks of the same vintage as yours. One was particularly difficult to spot. Symptom was that clock ran for some time then stopped. I found that the cracked gear slipped on the shaft which allowed the spring on the clutch mechanism to force the gear to move which took the end shake out of that shaft. That caused the clock to stop.

    See photo of a second one I found to be cracked the same way, but rather more obviously.
     

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  14. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Re: Ingraham Duplex Magic 7 inch - need bezel, glass and maybe dial??

    Thanks Hudson. I know there's something weird going on with this clock. It ran fine for two years and now all of a sudden all this strange behavior. I'll take a look at that shaft.
     

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