Ingraham banjo

[Gary Leck]

I am working on an Ingraham banjo clock. It is running great. The problem is, it is running too good. It keeps time properly, but the suspension rod is hitting the sides of the throat just as it comes into the lower box. I have adjusted the verge to minimum locks and drops. The escape wheel just does land on the flat of verge, both entrance and exit palets. Would a thicker suspension spring do the trick? The rod it came with too short and not sure if the bob is even right.

 

[Scottie-TX]

Too much power perhaps: Weight drive - may need less weight. Spring drive - sprang may be too strong.

 

[Gary Leck]

Spring driven. I don't know what is original to this clock. Online auction purchase. Good for my learning experience. Thanks for the reply Scotty.

 

[MSHO3356]

Sounds like its overpowered,probobly one of those high powered replacements,.018 thick,not sure what trans duy ly calls for,dont have that flavor,maybe someone else out there does,good luck

 

[shutterbug]

But to answer your question, yes, a thicker suspension spring would help. Shorter would also help, if you have enough pendulum adjustment to make up for it.

 

[Scottie-TX]

What ya might could try as a lower power test is to let down the spring entirely then only wind it perhaps a half or one full turn and observe under this power reduction. Might be a clue.
How wide is the pendulum rod?

 

[Gary Leck]

Scottie, do you mean the rod or spring? The rod is round and about 60 th. thick. That should have no bearing on amplitude. The spring(susp), is 4.93 mm wide. I think I will try a wider and thicker suspension spring like Shutterbug has suggested. Am I correct in assuming that in decreasing my drops and locks that I will decrease my swing or is that something I just imagined I read?

 

[Scottie-TX]

Naw, I meant the rod. See, I was thinking if the rod was wide that it would more readily be apt to strike the sides.
Yep! You got it right. Often, reducing locks will decrease swing as it can UNlock in a shorter distance. Howerver if there is excess power, it will probably swing just as wide in spite of your adjustments. Thicker suspension may help but not much - hopefully enough to correct your problem. I doubt it.

 

[Gary Leck]

It must have the wrong springs in it. Nothing I do seems to reduce swing. I will have to measure the main spring and order a weaker one. Anyone have an idea as to what it is suppose to have? Ingraham 8 day bim bam.

 

[Regalansonia]

Nearly all Ingraham 8 day spring striking movements (wall and mantle, made after 1880) used the standard 3/4" X .018" X 96" loop end mainspring. If you find that this is 'overpowering' your clock, you might replace the time spring with the more accepted spring of 3/4" X .016" X 96" that can be found in most of the supply catalogues.

I am working on an Ingraham banjo clock. It is running great. The problem is, it is running too good. It keeps time properly, but the suspension rod is hitting the sides of the throat just as it comes into the lower box. I have adjusted the verge to minimum locks and drops. The escape wheel just does land on the flat of verge, both entrance and exit palets. Would a thicker suspension spring do the trick? The rod it came with too short and not sure if the bob is even right.

 

[shutterbug]

There is a possibility of creating a damping system to reduce the pendulum extremes. Perhaps some springs to arrest ti's movement. I hate to suggest a way to muzzle a clock that just wants to run, but if it's hitting the sides of the case it's already being restricted somewhat. You could just restrict it a little more, and not so abruptly. That function has a name, but I just can't bring it to mind right now.

 

[Gary Leck]

Thanks to everyone for their replys. Regal, I will measure and see what it has and go from there. Shut, I understand what you are refering to. Might be a simple solution, but only if all else fails. I am learning as I go, but am also trying to do each clock as right as I can.

 

[Scottie-TX]

Perhaps you're thinking of the term, "cheeks", SHUT?
Detuning the escapement for any reason is NEVER a good procedure.

 

[shutterbug]

Perhaps you're thinking of the term, "cheeks", SHUT?
Detuning the escapement for any reason is NEVER a good procedure.

Yeah, and yeah
However, in this case I'm not sure what else to suggest

 

[Brian Smith]

I had an Ingraham Nyanza once. It came with a lead bob that had been cut vertically on both sides of he bob like this (). Maybe the previous owner was attempting to solve the same problem by reducing the width of the bob.

 

[Scottie-TX]

I've seen two, spring powered, one day miniatures that had arc shaped cutouts, both sides of bob. Since both clocks are identical I believe those cutouts were factory made.

 

[Steven Thornberry]

I'm not 100% sure what Brian is describing, but the Nyanza bob is nice and round and should not bump against the sides. I'd like to see the movement.

 

[Scottie-TX]

I think BRYAN was describing one he saw where someone hacked the bob. Not the problem here as on this one the stick is hitting the throat.

 

[Steven Thornberry]

I think BRYAN was describing one he saw where someone hacked the bob. Not the problem here as on this one the stick is hitting the throat.

Yep, I know he was. I just didn't make my transitions clear; but I think it would be nice to see the movement of the clock in this thread.

 

[Gary Leck]

I'll get a picture up this evening.

 

[Gary Leck]

I just can't seem to get a better shot than this. I hope this will do.

 

[shutterbug]

Hmmm. A half dead-beat. I suspect (without ever trying it) that purposely altering the angle of the impulse faces would provide the needed reduction in swing. You'll be decreasing the efficiency of the impulse though, so I'd consult Mr. LaBounty first to check the advisability of this and get an idea of the new angle you'd want to try.

 

[Scottie-TX]

Even if you could, and you probably can - I'd question why you would. After all; if this movement is original to the clock and probably it is - it didn't leave the factory with this problem. This problem was introduced.
Typically the pallet is ground to produce about two degress of lift. When lesser lift is used, sometimes 1 and 1/2 degrees, is so designed to swing a heavier bob - not to reduce swing.

 

[Gary Leck]

My best guess at this point is the main spring. Shows you how bright I am, I should have measured it while I had the movement out for the picture. And the clock is doing just fine since I put it back into the case!

 

[shutterbug]

My best guess at this point is the main spring. Shows you how bright I am, I should have measured it while I had the movement out for the picture. And the clock is doing just fine since I put it back into the case!

Interesting! Well, 'ya can't argue with success

 

[Scottie-TX]

Congrats!
Congrats but I'm missing a link - that is what you did to make it perform properly and not strike the throat - replaced mainspring?

 

[Gary Leck]

I hadn't done anything, and I was mistaken(shocked), It still hits the throat. I'll get back to it soon.

 

[Steven Thornberry]

Gary: What model banjo and what type of pendulum? I wonder if this makes a difference somehow?

 

[Gary Leck]

Here's a pic of the clock. It is running in this pic.

 

[harold bain]

Gary, I've got to say that proportionately that bob looks way too small. Probably a larger, heavier bob would cure the problem. Tran's book doesn't show a bob for the "Yankee Clipper" so I don't know what you may need.

 

[Gary Leck]

Well, I did'nt think that more weight on the bob would change anything, but I did hang another bob on with the one you see and did not change the swing. The one I added was about the same size and mass so I just about doubled the weight. It is ticking away as I type, but if you watch it you will see the bob quiver as the rod hits the case. I didn't true the escape wheel so it hits for a while and then it doesn't. That may be how it is until such time as I can look at the spring.When I first put the clock back together and ran it out of the case, it had even more swing than it does now. That is when I decreased lock and drop to get what I have now. It is very possible that the main spring is too strong. I will get back to it and see soon, first I have to earn my keep. I thank every one for their input on this problem and I will let you know what I find.

 

[Scottie-TX]

It is very easy to analyze power available and assess ability to run on less.
Observe overswing - supplemental arc - that is the distance the pendulum travels after lock. LISTEN and WATCH: Listen for the tick then WATCH how far the pendulum travels after the tick. The tick is the lock. The distance is overswing. A pendulum that has a large supplementary arc - let's say more than an eighth inch - four or five degrees measured as an angle - will assuredly run reliably on less power. If overswing is excessive - it is overpowered.