information on James Hoddell movement

Blake

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Jul 6, 2020
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Would like to respectfully ask for some help on information on this movement I have acquired recently...date ...jewels..if possible...the address of James Hoddell & co in london ( 5 Goswell Road ) is different than on other Hoddell pocket watches I have looked at...The serial # is 7822 and it has pins on the plate instead of screws...It has no case just the movement but runs great...Here are some picutures...
Any info would be helpful...
Thanks for the help...

IMG_3442.jpg IMG_3440.jpg IMG_3441.jpg
 

Dr. Jon

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HI Blake. It is never anything but respectful to submit photos and ask for information.

Your watch is a Liverpool type. It has a fenestrated balance cock. Fenestra is a Latin word for window. Your photos look like the there is glass in the window. It is there to show that the center wheel has a jewel.

It is a fairly high grade. watch.
 
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gmorse

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Hi Blake,

There are no Hoddells listed in Loomes with this precise address, but Goswell Road runs down one side of Northampton Square, which is the address mostly listed for James Hoddell & Co. This company were most probably the retailers of the watch and may have had some input to its finishing, but it wasn't entirely made in London.

Dr. Jon is quite right, this has many of the characteristics of a Liverpool watch, with the barrel ratchet and click mounted on the barrel bar, and the large clear jewels, (which were often quartz rather than anything harder), but at this time, (probably around the 1850s or 60s), the Coventry trade was making inroads into the Liverpool business of 'raw' movements, and there was some interchange of watches, movements and craftspeople between these two centres and London, in a triangular relationship.

The fenestrated cock table seems to have been more favoured in the US, because many of the English watches with this feature appear to have been exported, with or more usually without cases, from the port of Liverpool across the Atlantic, but are less common here. Jewelled centre wheels are similarly less common in English watches for the home market.

Pinned plates were very common in English watches throughout the 19th century, although there were exceptions; screwed plates were pretty much standard in box chronometers throughout the period for instance.

Regards,

Graham
 
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John Matthews

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Sep 22, 2015
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Ted,

Like you I have never seen a James Hoddell watch carrying this address. Neither can I find a second example from an internet search. Also, the address in Goswell Road is some distance from Northampton Square.

As you probably know James Hoddell had his manufacturing base in Coventry where he is listed as being 25 in 1841, the company was declared bankrupt in1889 and James died in that same year. He was a manufacturer who gained a high reputation, using Lancashire frames, including those made by Wycherley, that were then finished at the Craven Street, Coventry works. Many of his watches were delivered to retailers with the retailer's signature engraved on the movement, those with his signature had the London address of 15 Northampton Square. He also exported watches to America, and these often had rather more 'obvious jewels' than those for the home market. Hoddell watches were imported by Fellows & Schell of New York, in the 1850s.

A very similar 'American' full plate movement with the James Hoddell signature has been posted before. I have to admit to having some concerns, probably unfounded, about the authenticity of both examples.

Does the cap have any maker's marks on the underside? If so a photograph would be appreciated.

John
 
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gmorse

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Hi John,

Also, the address in Goswell Road is some distance from Northampton Square.
Yes, I noticed that number 5 is now some way south of the square, but wondered if the road had been re-numbered at some point.

Regards,

Graham
 

John Matthews

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Graham,

I can confirm from a map of Good's map of 1887 that 5 was the third building, north from the corner with Clerkenwell Road.

1612531864328.png

Today, it is situated approximately the same distance south of Clerkenwell Road (red dot on the map)

1612532286910.png

Many of the squares off Goswell Road are listed using the Road as a district, e.g. Northampton Square, Goswell Road, but in those instances a street number is not included.

As far as I can determine Hoddell & Co. first occupied the address in Northampton Square between 1852 and 1856. They are not listed as an alternative address in the 1852 PO directory. In 1842 John Merfield, an engraver, occupied 5 Goswell Road. I suppose it is possible that for a very short period between 1852 and 1856 they temporarily occupied the Goswell Road address.

John
 

Blake

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Jul 6, 2020
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John

Thank you for the info...and yes the cap does..here is photo... i believe G.B

IMG_3443.jpg
 

John Matthews

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Sep 22, 2015
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Ted,

If it is CB it could be Charles Bates, who was listed as a cap maker in Coventry in 1850. I can find no other alternative.

John
 

Blake

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John

It very well could be a CB...Everyone has been very helpful....
To have something that is maybe one of a kind is a thrill to me...

Thanks

Ted
 

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