French Information for Carriage Clock

WHGS36

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Oct 10, 2020
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Hi Everyone!

I have just recently got this clock but I don't know anything about it. The seller doesn't know anything about it either as this was a clock that belonged to his grandparents. All that I can gather from the engravings are that this is a french carriage clock. It has engravings "5782" at the back and "57" by the door. Any idea on what year and style of this clock is? Not looking for any value, just looking to gather information and knowledge about this clock.

I have attached photos for you all to see

Cheers!

1602105645897.jpg 1602105646031.jpg 1602105646339.jpg 1602105646513.jpg
 

new2clocks

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Hi Everyone!

I have just recently got this clock but I don't know anything about it. The seller doesn't know anything about it either as this was a clock that belonged to his grandparents. All that I can gather from the engravings are that this is a french carriage clock. It has engravings "5782" at the back and "57" by the door. Any idea on what year and style of this clock is? Not looking for any value, just looking to gather information and knowledge about this clock.

I have attached photos for you all to see

Cheers!

View attachment 616253 View attachment 616254 View attachment 616255 View attachment 616256
Welcome to the forum.

The "Made in France" on the backplate indicates that the clock was made after 1890. It was probably made between 1891 and 1905 or so.

Regards.
 

WHGS36

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Oct 10, 2020
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Welcome to the forum.

The "Made in France" on the backplate indicates that the clock was made after 1890. It was probably made between 1891 and 1905 or so.

Regards.
Thank you! Looking forward to learn more about both clocks and watches and this forum seems to be the best avenue to do so.

Much appreciated your input of the markings for "Made in France"
 

Christopher Lloyd Owen

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Aug 27, 2020
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I find this bit of legal history helpful in dating clocks. It suggests that your clock is 1914 or later. I also think that these "fat" Roman numerals on the dial are generally well into the 20th century too. You also often see just the word FRANCE stamped on the ratchet cock, and I usually think of those as being definitely before the first war.

Country of origin requirements were not common law until 1891. (MADRID AGREEMENT CONCERNING THE INTERNATIONAL REGISTRATION OF MARKS)

In 1890, the U.S. Congress passed protectionist tariff legislation - the McKinley Tariff. This legislation, in addition to imposing heavy tariffs on imports and provoking a major depression in the United States, also required that imported items be labelled with their country of origin.

Every article of foreign origin entering the United States must be legibly marked with the English name of the country of origin unless an exception from marking is provided for in the law.

Originally articles imported to the US were marked with the Country only i.e. "Bavaria." If you see a mark that simply says a country name it was likely made after 1890 for export to the United States.

In 1914, the U.S. added the requirement of the words "Made in" to the Country of origin marking. Thus new imports after that date were marked i.e. "Made in France"
 

new2clocks

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I find this bit of legal history helpful in dating clocks. It suggests that your clock is 1914 or later. I also think that these "fat" Roman numerals on the dial are generally well into the 20th century too. You also often see just the word FRANCE stamped on the ratchet cock, and I usually think of those as being definitely before the first war.

Country of origin requirements were not common law until 1891. (MADRID AGREEMENT CONCERNING THE INTERNATIONAL REGISTRATION OF MARKS)

In 1890, the U.S. Congress passed protectionist tariff legislation - the McKinley Tariff. This legislation, in addition to imposing heavy tariffs on imports and provoking a major depression in the United States, also required that imported items be labelled with their country of origin.

Every article of foreign origin entering the United States must be legibly marked with the English name of the country of origin unless an exception from marking is provided for in the law.

Originally articles imported to the US were marked with the Country only i.e. "Bavaria." If you see a mark that simply says a country name it was likely made after 1890 for export to the United States.

In 1914, the U.S. added the requirement of the words "Made in" to the Country of origin marking. Thus new imports after that date were marked i.e. "Made in France"
Welcome to the forum.

I do not know what internet source you quote from, but this "Made in Country of Origin" versus "Country of Origin" is a fallacy.

Long story short, the Tariff Act of 1890, commonly known as the McKinley Tarif Act, was effective March, 1891 and required articles of import into the U.S. to be marked with Country of Origin. Specific to clocks, the marking was required on the movement. There was no requirement to have "Made in" as a marking, although many exporters to the U.S. utilized this "Made in" marking.

The 1909 Tariff Act required the Country of Origin on the clock dials.

The late Doug Stevenson wrote a comprehensive article in the November, 2009 and the February, 2010 editions of Clocks Magazine that discusses these issues.

Doug references 414 backplates of 400 day clocks that were know to have been made from 1900 to 1913. Sixty-one percent (61%) had "Germany" on the backplate and 39% hade "Made in Germany" on the backplate.

From personal experience, I own a Gebrüder Kuner cuckoo clock, circa 1950, that has only "Germany" on the dial. I should note that Kuner started business in the mid-1920s.

For your convenience, below is an excerpt from the 1913 act that you reference:

1605976455637.png

Regards.
 

CCInet

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Dec 30, 2015
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The rear glass is not the original, it has been replaced. There is a poor finish on the bezel, or is it dirty?
 

Christopher Lloyd Owen

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Thanks new2clocks. Your reply is why I love this forum so much!! Always learning ....

This was the link I got my extract from, but your answer is much more comprehensive.
 
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