Indian Clock quits intermittently

[Dave T]

Just for curiosity, check the length of the pin that the verge sits on. If the spring holding the verge in place is touching it in any way, it will eventually stop the clock.

Shut, are we talking about this? The front edge of the saddle tends to ride on the spring clamp or appears to, but I don't think it's an issue?

I can’t tell from the photo but it looks like the leader is touching the end of the crutch loop. Be sure it hangs in the center of the loop.

And the leader is centered in the loop from front to back and I don't see any rubbing on either side.

 

[Dave T]

Morning update... the clock is running! Yesterday, after the two posts from Shut and Will I looked at the verge mounting post and also the suspension and crutch loop.
The only thing I did to it was to make sure the suspension spring was properly aligned, to fall vertically and in the center of the crutch loop.

So... I do know that the split post that holds the suspension spring is very tight, and it is possible to cock it in or out and thus affect the alignment in the center of the crutch loop. Making it easy to knock it out of alignment just by starting the clock.
In other words, it doesn't slip freely in the slot and hang naturally to insure that gravity will hold it straight down. I will try to open the slot in the post a little.

For now I want to let it run and see how much more I get out of it.
Thanks to all for pointing to things to look for.

 

[shutterbug]

Shut, are we talking about this? The front edge of the saddle tends to ride on the spring clamp or appears to, but I don't think it's an issue?

Yes. I don't think you want it touching at all. You might be able to bend the spring a little.

 

[Dave T]

After that last adjustment to the suspension spring, the clock ran for another three days., For a total of 8 and a little more. Used up a little more of the springs this time.

 

[R. Croswell]

After that last adjustment to the suspension spring, the clock ran for another three days., For a total of 8 and a little more. Used up a little more of the springs this time.
View attachment 720334

8 days for an 8-day clock sounds good but if everything is in perfect condition, it should run more like 10 days. Check again that the verge cannot come in contact with that retaining clamp.

RC

 

[Dave T]

Check again that the verge cannot come in contact with that retaining clamp.

I did check it again and there is good clearance between the saddle on the verge and the retaining clamp.

I also opened the slot in the suspension post, to allow the spring free movement in the slot. And now the leader has more freedom in the crutch loop, I think. I suspect the friction there, if any, has been lessened somewhat.

So, I'm going to let it go for another full run and see what happens.

 

[R. Croswell]

I also opened the slot in the suspension post, to allow the spring free movement in the slot. And now the leader has more freedom in the crutch loop, I think. I suspect the friction there, if any, has been lessened somewhat.

So, I'm going to let it go for another full run and see what happens.

What you describe can be an elusive problem. The slot in the suspension post needs to be loose enough that the suspension spring, leader, and pendulum will always align itself to true vertical if the clock is tilted forward or backward. But it must not be sloppy. The sides of the slot should be parallel. If the slot is wider at the root (or wider at the tip) it can sometimes make the pendulum wobble at the ends of the swing.

Also check that there is come clearance between the leader rod and sides of the loop at the crutch foot all along the length of the loop. It need not be a lot, about the thickness of a heavy piece of paper should do for this movement.

RC

 

[Dave T]

The slot on the post was so tight it was difficult to get the spring in, or out. And I had a hard time opening it up. I used an old knife with a thin edge, and when I finally got it in the slot it went fast, and spread the outer ends more than I anticipated. So it is not parallel from front to back. I'd like to correct it but not quite sure how to close it at the front edge. In other words how do you straighten a split post?

But, it is running well and the pendulum runs straight and true. I think I have the proper gap at the loop.

 

[Dave T]

I think I'm about to let the Indian go. It ran for another 8 plus days.

 

[TRANSPORTER]

Thanks Willie, I read a lot of threads on this forum, and that's the first time I knew or heard this. Good info!
So based on that, my clock should be running more than 4 days. And when it quits, the outer half of the spring is still tight. I also noticed when I wound it that the coils contracted in jerks. Which made me think it definitely needs cleaning.

My first thought on your first oictures was that the springs look dry and stuck together unevenly. If I had this on my bench it would be inspected first, then sorings wound up and held by clamps then a thorough look at the pivots and holes with no power on either train, this will allow you to see any wear.
then its strip and clean, you have unfortuantly wasted just as much time trying to get it to run as you would have dismantling it and rectifying the faults and cleaning and re-assembling again.
In this trsade there arent short cuts im afraid, trust me ive tried i in the past.

 

[Dave T]

Transporter, I completely agree with you. The first thing I suspected was the springs. However, I also try to learn as much as I can during the process.
This clock had other issues that was resolved through this thread, and yes it still needs to be broken down, cleaned and serviced.

I'm a retired old man and these ventures keep me occupied, both physically and mentally. Consequently, I don't look at it from a business point of view.

 

[R. Croswell]

I think I'm about to let the Indian go. It ran for another 8 plus days.

...........and yes it still needs to be broken down, cleaned and serviced.

Am I missing something? It sounds like you are about to "let the Indian go" knowing that it still needs to be "broken down, cleaned and serviced" because it just "ran for another 8 plus days". Remember, just because it ticks doesn't mean that its fixed. If you send it out knowing that it hasn't been cleaned and that worn pivot holes have not been bushed, it will probably be paying you a visit again pretty soon.

RC

 

[Dave T]

Am I missing something? It sounds like you are about to "let the Indian go" knowing that it still needs to be "broken down, cleaned and serviced" because it just "ran for another 8 plus days". Remember, just because it ticks doesn't mean that its fixed. If you send it out knowing that it hasn't been cleaned and that worn pivot holes have not been bushed, it will probably be paying you a visit again pretty soon.

RC

No, you're not missing anything. I know I said I would clean this one, but considering all the circumstances, (some not mentioned here) I decided to return it. I have a good relationship with the owner, and if it stops I'm sure he will let me know. If and when that happens, I'll tear it down and work on it. The case for it is average to poor condition, and I'm sure he won't do anything about it. In fact after he gets it back I doubt if it will be put into regular service.

So considering the cost to him, (nothing) he's happy.

 

[R. Croswell]

So considering the cost to him, (nothing) he's happy.

Well he should be, but I've found that even when the charge is zero, and the customer has been advised what to expect, he/she usually expects the same as if he/she had been charged $300 or $400 and is equally disappointed if it fails. I make the decision what will be done when I look and make an estimate. I tell them I will do it and the price, or I tell them take it someplace else. If I take the job and can't fix it I don't charge for the work. I don't need to be doing free works or $15 make'em run til they get out the door jobs.

RC

 

[Dave T]

I asked him today if he had put it back in the case, and he said, "sort of".
I said it's either a yes or no question! He said, "okay no, I dropped the hand nut and haven't taken the time to look for it yet".
So there ya go.