Illinois Watch Co. 16 size numbered grades

Fred Hansen

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I had posted this on the Chapter 149 and the Global Horology message boards a few months back, but thought it would be of interest here too.

A lot of attention goes to the "named" 16 size Illinois grades ... the Bunn, Bunn Special, A. Lincoln, Sangamo, and Sangamo Special ... but I think many collectors aren't quite as familiar with the other 16 size Illinois grades, most of which are numbered grades but aren't actually marked on the movement with this grade number.

Here is some brief overview I put together of the numbered 16 size Illinois grades, focusing on the Illinois grade numbering system and the characteristics that watches share within certain number ranges of this system. Most this info can be found in either the Illinois book by Bill Meggers or in Russ Snyder's Illinois database.

And as always any comments, additions, corrections, etc. are always welcome and appreciated!


100's
Grade numbers in this range are 106, 107, and 108. The common trait of these watches is that they are higher jeweled (19 and 21), bridge model, and to my knowledge all examples recorded have been private-label marked for the Burlington Watch Company.

110's
Grade numbers in this range are 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, and 116. The common trait of these watches is that they are the early 16 size Illinois models 1, 2, and 3 that were produced in the early to mid 1890's before the introduction of the Getty model. In general the quality increases with the higher grade numbers of this series ... with the 110, 111, and 112 being lower grade watches ... the 113 and some 114 as middle grade watches ... and the 115, 116, and some 114 as better grade "Adjusted" marked watches.

160's
Grade numbers in this range are 161 (and 161-Elinvar), 161A, 161B, 163 (and 163-Elinvar), 163A, 167, and 169. The common trait of these watches is that they are late grades that were produced under Hamilton Watch Co. ownership of the Illinois name. The last digit of the grade number corresponds with the last digit in the jewel count of the watch ... so the 161 matches to the 21 jewel Bunn Special, the 163 to the 23 jewel Bunn Special, the 167 to a 17 jewel grade, and the 169 to a 19 jewel grade. Also of note is that these movements are signed with the name "Illinois Watch" rather than "Illinois Watch Co." (I have heard there may be a few exceptions to this name rule, but I haven't seen one myself yet).

170's
Grade numbers in this range are 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 174-B, 175, 176, 177, 178, and 179. The common trait of these watches is that all are Getty model, and most are 3/4 plate movements with the exceptions being grades 174-B and 178 are 3 finger bridge Getty model movements, some early factory marked 17 jewel grade 175 with a 3-finger bridge design, and some private-labels that had a 1-finger or 3-finger bridge design. In general quality increases with the higher grade numbers of this series ... with the 171, 172, 173, 174, and 174-B being unadjusted watches (though notably with some 174 and 174-B being made in 21 and 23 jewel versions) ... the 170, 175 and 176 are adjusted grades (with the 170 being the main exception of the 170's series to the order of increasing quality following increasing grade number) ... and the 177, 178, and 179 are high grade watches.

180's
Grade numbers in this range are 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, and 189. The common trait of these watches is that all are Getty model 3-finger bridge movements. In general the quality increases with the higher grade numbers of this series ... with most grades 183 and 184 being unadjusted watches (though notably with some 184 being made in 21 and 23 jewel version) ... the 185, 186, some 183, and some 184 are adjusted grades ... and the 181, 187, 189, and the 23 jewel version of the 186 are high grade watches. The one grade which is left off here is the 182 ... this grade is shown with a production of 500 spanning serials 1495001-1495500 and to my knowledge none have yet been reported ... and IF this grade has a parallel to the 172 (as most grades in the 180's series are 3 finger bridge parallels to equivalent 3/4 plate grades in the 170's series) it would be expected to be a 3 finger bridge Getty model lower jeweled unadjusted grade.

190's
The only grade number in this range is the grade 199. This grade is shown with a production of 200 spanning serials 1630801-1631000 and to my knowledge none have been yet reported, but the Meggers book and Snyder database both list this as a 16 jewel model 6 of otherwise unknown description. If accurate this would be a very low serial number for a 16 size model 6 movment.

200's
The only grade number in this range is the grade 204. This is a 17 jewel model 7 produced in a single run of 1000 watches. A good part of this run appears to have been marked "Illinois Central", but another private-label found in this run is marked "Railroad Special" and Russ Snyder's database also shows a factory marked watch for this grade.

300's
Grade numbers in this range are 301, 303, 304, 305, 306, 308, and 310. The common trait of most these grades is that they are bridge model pendent-set model 6 and 7 movements, with the exceptions being the 301 which is a 3/4 plate pendent-set model 7 and the grade 308 which is a bridge model lever-set model 9. The quality of these grades increases with the higher grade numbers of the series ... the 303 and most 304 are unadjusted ... the 305, 306, and according to Russ Snyder's database the 21 jewel version of the 304 are adjusted grade movements ... the 308 is a 5 position adjusted railroad grade movement ... and the 310 is a top quality grade.

500's
The only grade number in this range is the grade 561. This is a 21 jewel model 9 produced in a single run of 1000 watches, and I believe all reported examples have been private-label marked for the Santa Fe Watch Company.

600's
Grade numbers in this range are 601, 603, 604, 605, 606, and 609. The common trait of most these watches is that they are pendent-set model 6 and 7 movements, with the exceptions being that Russ Snyder's database has identified a run of lever-set grade 601. These 600's series grade do not have the bridge model plate design of the 300's series grades ... but instead are found with a 3/4 plate movement, a curved 3 finger bridge movement (many marked "Stewart" or "Stewart Special"), a 3/4 plate design with a split train bridge (on those private-label marked for the Washington Watch Co.), or a 1 finger design on the train bridge (on those private-label marked "Interstate Chronometer").

700's
Grade numbers in this range are 704, 705, 706, 707, 709, 710 and 770. The common trait of these watches is that they are bridge model lever-set model 8, 9, and 10 movements. The quality increases with the higher numbers of the series ... the 704 is an unadjusted grade ... the 705, 706, and 707 are adjusted grade movements ... and the 709, 710, and 770 are top quality grades.

800's
Grade numbers in this range are 801, 805, 806, 809, and 810. The common trait of these watches is that they have higher jewel counts (19, 21, or 23), and most are lever-set with the exception being the pendent-set 19 jewel grade 806. The plate design varies through this series and includes 3/4 plate, bridge models, curved 3 finger bridge ("Stewart Special" marked watches), straight 3 finger bridge (marked for "Burlington Watch Co."), and split train bridge (on watches marked for the Washington Watch Co.). All 800 series grades are adjusted, with the top quality being the 23 jewel grades 809 and 810. All grade 810 are marked for Ball Watch Co. and have their own B prefixed serial number sequence.

Lettered grades
Lettered grades include G, H, and K. These are all early model (models 1, 2, and 3) movements from the early end of 16 size production. Total production of these lettered grades is fairly low, and most are lower grade movements but a small number were apparently made in 16 jewel.

Fred
 
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Tom McIntyre

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Very nice Fred. :)

So this means I should be looking for serial numbers in the 310, 709, 710, 770 and 809 groups?

The one of those I am unfamiliar with is the 770. I cannot find a reference to it in Russ' database. I don't suppose it is marked Diamond, Ruby and Sapphire jewels, is it?
 

Fred Hansen

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I don't think you'd want any of those Tom, I'd recommend staying away from any of them you see but just make sure to point them out to me first.

:)

The 770 is listed in the Meggers book as the earlier run of the Diamond Ruby Sapphire watches marked "Greenwich" for Montgomery Ward's "Washington Watch Co.". I'm away from my Illinois database right now but I think Russ might have grouped this run together with the model 9 grade 710 and believes that they are in fact the same grade. I certainly wouldn't argue with him if he has evidence for this and I could correct the notes above.

Fred
 

Glenn Davis

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I just bought a nice 801 grade serial # 4363140 21 jewel open face. One database says it was only made one year 1923 and 1000 total were made ever. Does this sound right? The case is a very heavy duty keystone nickleoid that looks like it might be original? What do you guys think? I love this case and it cleaned up nice. The movement needed a mainspring and new staff which I put in last night. She is ticking like a champ. I need to dig through my junk movements and see if I can find a gold plated regulator spring. I think the regulator spring was gold but it might have to settle for a steel one. The dial is actually pretty nice once I cleaned it. Is this watch really one of 1000? The only reference book I have so far is "complete price guide to watches" and it doesn't mention a 801 grade at all.
illinois grade 801 full movement.JPG illinois closeup 1.JPG illinois 801 dial.JPG illinois 801 case inside.JPG illinois fron fullcase.JPG
 

richiec

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You will also note that the database shows this as a 12 size so until the Illinois experts chime in who knows how many were actually made. It is a nice find regardless.
 

Glenn Davis

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The Illinois database CD that I have shows it as a 16 size, model 9, grade 801. 1000 made in a single run during 1923.

Dave thank you the CD is on the short list of next purchases. I've become a Illinois collector and fan so it's a must have it looks like. Thanks for looking it up.
Glenn

- - - Updated - - -

You will also note that the database shows this as a 12 size so until the Illinois experts chime in who knows how many were actually made. It is a nice find regardless.

I noticed that also.
 

Glenn Davis

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I need help finding case screws for this thing! They are smaller diameter than the normal case screw and look to be shorter since they screw into the barrel bridge plate. Looking for a gold regulator spring with screw if anyone has one they want to sell.

Thanks and I'll post some pictures of the cleaned and oiled watch once I get it back in its case.

There really is very little information on the web on these 801's.

Glenn
 

Jim Haney

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Glenn,
Start a new thread in the Watch Repair forum for parts and if anyone can help you it should be done by Private Message .

We can not ask for "For Sale" items in these educational forums.
 
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Glenn Davis

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I just saw a 706 grade that looks like the finger bridge twin to the 801 and it also had a case that was oversized. He says its almost as big as a 18S on the outside diameter. I haven't measured mine but I would have to agree that it is the largest 16S case I've ever seen. I'm wondering if these 700 and 800 grades had a common trait with these over-sized heavy duty cases or maybe this was just a coincidence. I know almost nothing about cases but I know that many models up to a certain time were sold without cases and then others were sold only with specific cases. No idea about this time or grade range so thought I would just throw that out there for consideration or observation.

Glenn
 

Harvey Mintz

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Fred -

I have one of the exceptions to the name rules that you so succinctly posted above: a watch marked 161 Elinvar that is also marked 23 jewels. All the internal numbers match the serial number on the watch. You can see it in Chattanooga if you wish.
 

Fred Hansen

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Thanks Harvey, I remember you showed this to me at one of the other recent regionals we were at. Cool and interesting piece, I've heard of one or two others and think these would more likely be factory errors as they run counter to Hamilton's numbering system but can't rule out that they could have been done intentionally for some reason.
 

Harvey Mintz

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Fred -

My own suspicion (for which I have absolutely no evidence, but it sounds good) is that the factory got in an order for a 23 Jewel Bunn Special, but had none to ship, so they took the next one in the run they were working on that hadn't had the number of jewels engraved yet, marked the plates 23 Jewels and put the jeweled barrel into it, creating a 23 Jewel 161 Elinvar.

The fact that this was made in the early 1930's when money was tight, sales were slow and Hamilton was thinking of closing the Illinois factory down makes it sound better to me.

Like I said - no evidence, but it makes a nice story.
 

KipW

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Guys - I KNOW this is an ancient thread but regarding '190' grade(s) in the Getty models, you mentioned a grade 199 and no others. So, I just had to ask what you make of this? (excerpt from Ch149 WJ Johnston Catalog 1909.) Unicorn?

Illinois Getty 190 WJ Johnston 1909.jpg
 

Fred Hansen

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Strange!

Looks like a Grade 175, though gold settings would be an anomaly as this grade typically has composition.

If such a beast does exist with gold settings I wonder if it is a custom product for this retailer (who notably did get cool customized movements from Hampden).
 

johnbscott

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Scott, thank you for reporting your interesting Grade 181 watch. Yes, as you indicate, the production quantity in open face was 140 (in two runs), and there were another 150 Grade 181 watches, in hunting configuration, in two runs more, according to the published data.
 
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