Illinois Watch Case Co. Tivoli Cases

[McDuff Smith]

I have a pocket watch case marked “Illinois Watch Case Co. Elgin Tivoli Gold Filled 14k Guaranteed” and I’m curious about its gold content and how long it should wear.

I know it was made Post-1924 because of FTC regulations, but I seem to only be able to find information on the Rolled Gold Plate variant marked only with “Tivoli” being, supposedly, guaranteed for 10 years as I’ve seen in the NAWCC encyclopedia section.

Does anyone here have any catalog resources with this case model referenced?

P.S. I have absolutely ZERO intention of scrapping it. It’s in far too good of shape to waste like that. I just want to know if it’s worth putting a high quality, 21 jewel movement in it and if the quality will mesh.

 

[Jim Haney]

14K Gold Filled standard warranty was 25 years.

Try Googling it for more info.

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

The actual gold content would be between 5% and 10% of the total weight. (i.e., 1/20 for standard gold fill or 1/10 for the best stuff)

 

[McDuff Smith]

Jim Haney interesting to know. I have goggled but, can’t find anything on NAWCC, Pocket Watch Database or anything else, past the “Tivoli” only marked cases guaranteed at 10 years.

Dave Coatsworth that was my general understanding of modern Gold Filled items as well, but I’m having trouble finding almost hundred-year-old regulations on the comparative year guarantee to gold filled ratio beyond this:

But that doesn’t really make any kind of comparison between pre-1924 and post 1924 FTC ruling on watch cases, especially because pre-1924, all they used were time guarantee and did not even stamp their cases as “Gold Filled”.

Old documentation is so very frustrating to find. I’m not ungrateful - by any means. 30 years ago, this kind of research would be next to impossible, so we all have it pretty darn good these days.

But that doesn’t stop me from lusting for more information.

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

A lot of gold filled jewelry is actually stamped 1/20 or 1/10. Not sure why cases were not. I guess because there was more room to stamp the guarantee BS.

 

[Nathan Moore]

Jim Haney interesting to know. I have goggled but, can’t find anything on NAWCC, Pocket Watch Database or anything else, past the “Tivoli” only marked cases guaranteed at 10 years.

Dave Coatsworth that was my general understanding of modern Gold Filled items as well, but I’m having trouble finding almost hundred-year-old regulations on the comparative year guarantee to gold filled ratio beyond this:
View attachment 761950
But that doesn’t really make any kind of comparison between pre-1924 and post 1924 FTC ruling on watch cases, especially because pre-1924, all they used were time guarantee and did not even stamp their cases as “Gold Filled”.

Old documentation is so very frustrating to find. I’m not ungrateful - by any means. 30 years ago, this kind of research would be next to impossible, so we all have it pretty darn good these days.

But that doesn’t stop me from lusting for more information.

The "Tivoli" case is cataloged here:

Tivoli Pocket Watch Case by the Illinois Watch Case Co. | Pocket Watch Database

Serial lookups, info, specs, and value for American antique pocket watches covering manufacturers like Elgin, Illinois, Waltham, and Hamilton

pocketwatchdatabase.com

It was guaranteed for a duration of 10 years. Here is the page from the 1923 Oskamp Nolting catalog that supports this claim:

 

[McDuff Smith]

The "Tivoli" case is cataloged here:

Tivoli Pocket Watch Case by the Illinois Watch Case Co. | Pocket Watch Database

Serial lookups, info, specs, and value for American antique pocket watches covering manufacturers like Elgin, Illinois, Waltham, and Hamilton

pocketwatchdatabase.com

It was guaranteed for a duration of 10 years. Here is the page from the 1923 Oskamp Nolting catalog that supports this claim:

View attachment 761972

This is very interesting. Does this catalog page apply to cases manufactured post-1924 FTC ruling as well?

I’ve seen the link you’ve added from PWDB in the past, but there seem to be 2 case grades of the “Tivoli” case line, with one being marked only with “Tivoli” and the other being marked with “14k Gold Filled Guaranteed”.

In my post above, that little ticket says that after the 1924 FTC ruling that outlawed year guarantee stamped in watch cases, that cases made after the aforementioned ruling “contain more gold than the former stamped guaranteed cases”, then says that RGP (10 year) cases are only stamped with their trademark and not with “Gold Filled”.

The case grade I’m looking for information on is stamped with “Gold Filled” as well as the trademark.

Here’s a photograph of my case:

PWDB has this photograph for a Tivoli case, which is RGP.

And this photograph, also from PWDB has the “Gold Filled” marking that. This is what my case is marked with and also the case that has no information associated with its grade.

 

[Nathan Moore]

In my post above, that little ticket says that after the 1924 FTC ruling that outlawed year guarantee stamped in watch cases, that cases made after the aforementioned ruling “contain more gold than the former stamped guaranteed cases”, then says that RGP (10 year) cases are only stamped with their trademark and not with “Gold Filled”.

There are instances of the Tivoli case being advertised as 14K Gold-Filled after 1924. Here is an ad published in the December 12, 1926 issue of the Chattanooga Daily Times.



I have not come across any advertisements or catalogs that indicate the Tivoli grade was rolled gold plate - only gold-filled. However, I should also note that I have seen instances where rolled gold plate cases were listed as gold-filled (usually in catalogs without a dedicated section for the rolled gold plate cases), contributing to additional confusion.

 

[McDuff Smith]

There are instances of the Tivoli case being advertised as 14K Gold-Filled after 1924. Here is an ad published in the December 12, 1926 issue of the Chattanooga Daily Times.

View attachment 762110

I have not come across any advertisements or catalogs that indicate the Tivoli grade was rolled gold plate - only gold-filled. However, I should also note that I have seen instances where rolled gold plate cases were listed as gold-filled (usually in catalogs without a dedicated section for the rolled gold plate cases), contributing to additional confusion.

View attachment 762100

I found this pamphlet floating around and thought it may have something interesting in it and I wasn’t disappointed:

"After January first any watch case manufactured and stamped with the words "gold filled" must show also the case maker's name or trade-mark and the fineness of the gold used (14 kt. 10 kt., etc.)…
Case manufactures will still have the right to make gold filled cases that will exceed "trade standard" of quality, but no watch case that falls below that standard will be marked "gold filled" after January first…
In approving this "trade standard" of quality, the Commission adopted as a minimum the quality heretofore used by the best and most reputable case makers in the manufacture of 20 and 25 year cases"

This document goes on to list several watch case manufacturers, including Illinois Watch Case Co..

This further suggests that there are 2 grades of the "Tivoli" branded case, one being a 10 year RGP case and the other being a 20 or 25 year Gold Filled case.

That being said, finding anything concrete on this suggestion is not panning out well for me.

 

[rschussel]

I have a pocket watch case marked “Illinois Watch Case Co. Elgin Tivoli Gold Filled 14k Guaranteed” and I’m curious about its gold content and how long it should wear.

I know it was made Post-1924 because of FTC regulations, but I seem to only be able to find information on the Rolled Gold Plate variant marked only with “Tivoli” being, supposedly, guaranteed for 10 years as I’ve seen in the NAWCC encyclopedia section.

Does anyone here have any catalog resources with this case model referenced?

P.S. I have absolutely ZERO intention of scrapping it. It’s in far too good of shape to waste like that. I just want to know if it’s worth putting a high quality, 21 jewel movement in it and if the quality will mesh.

As a marketing tool gold filled cases were listed with the number of years they were "expected "to hold up. 14kt gold filled case were typically marked 25 years and 18kt gold filled cases were marked either 30 years or permanent. Eventually this practice was outlawed.
With the price of gold around $2,000 gold filled cases are being melted for their gold . Thats why on Ebay etc you are seeing so many movements. without cases,