Illinois 'Senator' Pocket Watch

[Jessejames]

Hello, I’m a new member and need help with a watch. It’s a 12s 1925 Illinois 21 jewel - marked “senator” on movement. I was wondering about production numbers and if this a movement name or considered a private label. I can’t find anything in this watch. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jessejames]

 

[Jessejames]

Are you sure it is Senator? It really should be simply Senate.
Edit:
I see you have posted an image.

An American watch specialist can tell you more than I can.

Yes. It’s senator I have looked for a month and can’t find anything on this watch. Thanks

 

[Bila]

Yes. It’s senator I have looked for a month and can’t find anything on this watch. Thanks

What is the full serial number?

 

[Jessejames]

What is the full serial number?

Sorry I cropped it off in the first pic to fit.

 

[Jessejames]

View attachment 729109
Sorry I cropped it off in the first pic to fit.

sorry it cropped off to fit in the first pic.

View attachment 729109
Sorry I cropped it off in the first pic to fit.

“4612818”

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

Perhaps "Washington by Illinois Senate".

I don't think this is a Washington Watch Co product. Washington Watch Co did indeed have a 'Senate'. No 'Senator' to my knowledge.

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

It is not the first time 'Senator' appeared on an Illinois movement. Perhaps the 'Cincinnati, O.' might provide a clue as to which jeweler these were made for. I have not been able to determine that.

 

[Jessejames]

I don't think this is a Washington Watch Co product. Washington Watch Co did indeed have a 'Senate'. No 'Senator' to my knowledge.

Illinois made a senate in the 1880’s-90’s I found researching but never offered in this movement. I’m really stumped. I’ve turned down serious money for this watch by collectors. This was found in a burlap sack behind a baseboard remodeling a house built in 1889. It was a generation to generation family house until lt sold a year ago. Then came the remodel. So my guess the watch has been in the house since it was purchased or atleast in the family.

 

[Jessejames]

It is not the first time 'Senator' appeared on an Illinois movement. Perhaps the 'Cincinnati, O.' might provide a clue as to which jeweler these were made for. I have not been able to determine that.

View attachment 729113

Thanks. This is the one I think I first seen with “senator” on it.

 

[Jessejames]

21 jewel Washington Watch Co. "Army and Navy" serial #2441781 ...

[plain]http://images1.snapfish.com/347349%3B58%7Ffp33%3A%3Enu%3D3239%3E494%3E%3A4%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D32338394%3C7%3A%3B5nu0mrj

http://images1.snapfish.com/347349%3B58%7Ffp346%3Enu%3D3239%3E494%3E%3A4%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D32338394%3C578%3Bnu0mrj
[/plain]
From what I've seen the early "Army and Navy" movements were 19 jewel but these were changed to 21 jewel just before 2 million serial number in 16 size and at just past 2 million serial number in 18 size. The adjustment markings on these watches also changed several times from earlier to later production.

I am interested in data on all 16 and 18 size Washington Watch Co. movements, anyone have a serial number to report?

Fred

Try this here. I have no where else to turn. It’s a 12s 1925 21 jewel movement marked “senator” wondering if anyone came across in the database mentioned in the first post of this thread. I realize it’s been many years ago but the combined years of experience in members here may be able to help me.

 

[Christopher Burris]

Can we get the whole serial number on it?

 

[PatH]

Here is another thread on this watch that has the serial and a little additional information.

 

[Jessejames]

Can we get the whole serial number on it?

"4612818"

 

[Steven Thornberry]

Thanks. This is the one I think I first seen with “senator” on it.

Jim Carroll's website on Illinois 12s pocket watches indicates that an estimated 100 grade 274 movements bear the name Senator. That said, the information was apparently last updated May 19, 2020, and the website is now unfortunately only found on the "wayback machine."

Grade 274

 

[musicguy]

Jessejames welcome to the NAWCC Forum


Rob

 

[Jessejames]

Jim Carroll's website on Illinois 12s pocket watches indicates that an estimated 100 grade 274 movements bear the name Senator. That said, the information was apparently last updated May 19, 2020, and the website is now unfortunately only found on the "wayback machine."

Grade 274

Thank you very much for digging into it. So I guess it is a little rare.

 

[Jessejames]

Jessejames welcome to the NAWCC Forum


Rob

Thank you. This is the website I should have joined years ago. I mainly collect Illinois, south bend, hampden and I have over 200 watches and probably 400-500 movements. I’ve been reading thru other threads on here and may be of service to some others hopefully. I’m still going to try and find out more about this watch. That’s what lead me to your community. I’ll be more than happy to help others on here if possible.

 

[Steven Thornberry]

Thank you very much for digging into it. So I guess it is a little rare.

Well, the grade 274 is by no means rare. What makes this interesting is the name Senator on the movement, suggesting a private label.

 

[Jessejames]

Must be why you were offered good money to take it off your hands.

It’s been to 3 different older gentleman jeweler, watch repair and they were left scratching their heads. Two of them made me an offer and one suggested I send it to a jeweler in New York. Both offers were over $3k. If they we’re blindly offering that I knew it had to be on the rare side. I’m 43 and just started collecting a few years ago so My knowledge is limited but slowly expanding.

 

[Jessejames]

Well, the grade 274 is by no means rare. What makes this interesting is the name Senator on the movement, suggesting a private label.

Thanks. That’s another thing I was wanting to know. Is this considered a private label or name of the movement?

 

[musicguy]

One of the reasons I like Private Label watches so much
is that there aren't too many of each one.


Rob

 

[musicguy]

Both offers were over $3k

You should take one of them. That seems like 20 times it's value
unless it's in a gold case.


Rob

 

[Jessejames]

You should take one of them. That seems like 20 times it's value
unless it's in a gold case.


Rob

Yes the case is solid gold case. It’s now sitting in a Wadsworths GF case for a minute. I’m having the original professionally cleaned.