Illinois private-labels

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
7,496
4,020
113
New York State
Country
lever set,, what year is it aprox 1893?


Rob
 
Last edited:

4thdimension

NAWCC Member
Oct 18, 2001
2,607
421
83
Country
Region
Two I picked up at our mart today. -#2592422 0s htg 17j mov’t “Washington Watch Co./Mt. Vernon” dial “Washington Watch Co.”. -#687416 18s 15j gilt mov’t “F.F. Phelps/ Galt. Cal.” dial “Illinois Watch Co.” -Cort
 
  • Like
Reactions: Christopher Burris

Joe Blossic

Registered User
Sep 6, 2015
131
563
93
Country
Thanks John. Researching PL is something I enjoy. I think I have more on Zook but will have to look for it.
There are a couple similar I did recently in Seth Thomas and Hamilton PL threads.
 

johnbscott

NAWCC Member
Feb 25, 2007
432
354
63
Country
Yes, that is the appeal of private label watches. One can learn a lot. Moreover, those watches often have special decoration that is enticing. The extra provenance that they have is great.
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2,552
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
504613 - 'E. Jaccard Jewelry Co., St. Louis, No. 22', model 2, grade 100, 15 jewel (Verified by pulling dial. This is reported to be a mixed 11/15 jewel run.)

Illinois504613Dial.jpg Illinois504613Mvmt.jpg
 

PatH

NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Dec 5, 2014
2,143
1,596
113
Texas
Country
Region
Great watch, Dave! It's always interesting to see how many different fonts can be used on the movement of one watch.
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
7,496
4,020
113
New York State
Country
Fixed it thanks Tom


Rob
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2,552
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
505487 - 'Truman Reeves, San Bernardino, Cal.', model 2, grade 65, 15 jewel, DS dial

Illinois505487Mvmt.jpg Illinois505487Dial.jpg

Truman Reeves was born in Chardon, Ohio in August of 1840. In 1858, he began a watchmaker's apprenticeship at the firm of King and Brothers. When the Civil War began, he enlisted for the Union and attained the rank of lieutenant. He was wounded three times, the last resulting in the loss of his left arm at the battle of Cold Harbor. He was discharged in 1865 after spending seven months in the hospital.

Upon his return from the war, he served as postmaster, then as recorder for Ashtabula County, Ohio. In 1875 and in poor health, he came to California, settling in San Bernardino and re-establishing himself in the trade of watchmaker and jeweler. By the use of an ingenious device that he invented to replace his lost arm, he was said to be the only successful one armed watchmaker in the world.

During this time, he was active in Republican Party politics. In 1882, he was elected to the state legislature, representing San Bernardino County. In 1890, he was elected treasurer of San Bernardino and held that office for eight years. From 1898 to 1906, he served as California state treasurer. Truman Reeves died sometime between 1920 and 1930 according to census records.
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2,552
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
Had a couple of movements land in my mailbox today that are not what the database states they are. The first one...

Illinois1251830UnderDial.jpg Illinois1251830Mvmt.jpg Illinois1251830Dial.jpg

The database calls this a grade 101, but the grade 101 usually has burnished in jewels. This more likely resembles an 11 jewel grade 100, which does have jewels in settings and is seen in both 11 and 15 jewel varieties. So...

1251830 - 'J. C. Whittlesey, Rockville, Conn.', model 2, grade 100, 11J, SS dial
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2,552
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
The second one is a previously unreported run of 16 jewel Bunn grade movements in what was supposed to be a run of 17 jewel grade 65 movements. This is the third I have found in this run (1168834 and 1168838 previously reported in this thread).

1168858 - 'M. Kunkel, Albany, N.Y.', model 2, Bunn grade, 16 jewels, DS dial

Illinois1168858UnderDial.jpg Illinois1168858Dial.jpg Illinois1168858Mvmt.jpg
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2,552
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
143363 - 'William Mulloy, Great Falls, N.H.', model 1, Columbia grade, 11 jewels, SS dial.

Illinois143363Mvmt.jpg Illinois143363Dial.jpg

In searching around, I find that he is also a patent holder for a carriage harness.

Illinois143363PatentHolder.jpg
 
Last edited:

Christopher Burris

NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Dec 15, 2010
359
426
63
Country
Region
D Buchanan & Son, Richmond, VA Grade 177, HC, 16S, 17 Ruby Jewels, #1314939, DS Dial marked the same.

A Glasgow Jeweler Daniel Buchanan fashioned a watch for Queen Victoria, a presentation to her son Edward the Prince of Wales, this earned Daniel a royal warrant. In 1871 Daniel and his family moved to America and in 1886 Daniel Buchanan opened a jewelry store in Richmond, Virginia. Further expansion and in 1907 and third generation jeweler Samuel D. Hardy, open a jewelry store to Norfolk, Virginia. That business still exists.
371 movement.jpg 371 dial.jpg
 

marking_time

NAWCC Member
Nov 12, 2008
122
36
28
Lawrence, MI
Country
Region
1,330,009 full mov't.jpg 1,330,009 PL marking on train bridge.jpg 1,330,009 balance with GBS, GCW and flush GJS.jpg

I saw this watch when it was for sale. The grade 177 has it's own thread, under Illinois Pocket watch threads. It is a scarce grade with one ad describing the movement features. Chris Burris got an example in fantastic condition. It is a very high grade movement. I have had a grade 177 for some time. It is not in as great condition as the D. Buchanan and Son watch, but has the same high grade features. All of the grade 177 movements were manufactured in 1896. 260 17RJ--HN4L--T6PI movements and 220 17RJ--ON5L--T6PI movements. Meggers and Ehrhardt describe grade 177 features (p.134) as, " Temperature, 6 positions, isochronism--Ruby jewels in gold settings, polished gold rounded spoke center wheel, gold balance screws, Patent regulator, Gold-inlaid damaskeened nickel, black filled engraving, Polished oval headed screws. ..."

My movement is number 1,330,009. It is a hunter case configuration in an open face display case. It is from a run of 10 movements. This movement has black-filled markings, "Chapman & Armstrong--Galesburg, Ill.--17 Ruby Jewels--Adjusted--Safety Pinion". I have seen several Illinois watches PL marked for this jeweler. The movement in the grade 177 ad (Meggers and Ehrhardt, p.135) is number 1,330,008 and it is marked "Illinois Watch Co." Ads are unreliable for being exact examples of the movement described,especially the serial number. The single example in Russ Snyder's DB is #1,330,065. There are so few examples of this grade that it is hard to tell how many were PL. The 17 Ruby Jewels are in flush gold screw-down settings. The compensation balance has solid gold screws. There is a polished gold, rounded spoke, center wheel. Every visible screw is polished blue, oval head. Neither my movement, the "Buchanan" movement, #1,314,939, nor the DB example, #1,330,065 have the gold-inlaid damaskeen pattern described in Meggers and Ehrhardt, p.134. If it did have the gold-inlaid center circle, it would look just like the grade 179. The "Buchanan", #1,314,939 and #1,330,065 (in Russ Snyder's DB) are the only other hunter case configuration grade 177 I have seen in 25 years. Russ Snyder's DB also shows 2 examples of the open-face, Model 5 version, #1,316,602 and #1,302,103. And the grade 177, #1,316,605, movement found in the grade 177 thread. None of these 6 examples have the gold-inlaid damaskeen pattern.

Does anybody have more information and/or examples of this Illinois,16 size, grade 177 movement?
 
Last edited:

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2,552
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
273886 - 'A. J. Applegate, Cambridgeport, Mass.', model 3, grade 100, 15 jewels, DS dial. As with many of these grade 100 movements, the number of jewels on this one differs from what is reported in the database. This is reported to be a mixed 11/16 jewel run but, as you can see, this example is 15 jewels.

Illinois273886Mvmt.jpg Illinois273886Dial.jpg Illinois273886UnderDial.jpg
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2,552
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
279678 - 'G. J. Markewitz, Fresno, Cal.', model 2, grade 99, 11 jewel, SS dial

Illinois279678Dial.jpg Illinois279678Mvmt.jpg

Info from the Overland Monthly and Out West Magazine, 1887

Illinois279678Bio.jpg
 
Last edited:

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2,552
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
Hi Jay,
Are you able to remove the dial? The grade 2 is usually an 11 jewel movement, but I see the "15 jewels" on the barrel bridge, indicating that the pillar plate is jeweled. I have a few out of this run that straddle yours and they are all 11 jewel.
 

Jskirk

NAWCC Member
Aug 6, 2018
291
404
63
55
Indy
Country
Region
Dave, I dont have a hand puller, so I am not sure how to.
This being a PL could this have been ordered that way? I do not have either the Illinois CD or the Meggers book, so my main references are here and Pocketwatch database.
I can send it to you if you want to look at it.
Jay
 

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2,552
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
It certainly could have been ordered that way and I would not be surprised if you do find the pillar plate jeweled. On the other hand, I do have examples of bogus jewel counts being engraved. No need to send it to me. (You might not get it back!)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jskirk

Dave Coatsworth

Senior Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Business
NAWCC Fellow
Sponsor
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2,552
113
61
Camarillo, CA
www.daveswatchparts.com
Country
Region
209180 'Senator, Cincinnati, O.', model 2, grade 101, 11 jewel, SS dial. With the added benefit that it came with a hairspring that I can use to try out my nifty new hairspring detangler. (See Hairspring Detangler)

Illinois209180Mvmt.jpg Illinois209180Dial.jpg
 
Last edited:

Rick Hufnagel

Just Rick!
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Oct 25, 2018
2,271
3,358
113
36
Pittsburgh pa
Country
Region
688298
Model 3
Grade 2

Standard Watch Co, Pittsburgh PA
"Clipper"

The Standard American Watch Co was one of the first reasons I started to like private labels. Finally able to pick this one up as my first one. Will be and have been researching this company quite a bit if anyone has any information or watches they could share id really appreciate it! Message me anytime! rickhufnagel7@gmail.com

IMG_20200429_145350097_HDR.jpg IMG_20200429_145248230_HDR.jpg
 

Bostonjoe

Registered User
Oct 28, 2016
65
226
33
Massachusetts
Country
Region
Here is an early Illinois private label, SN#7714. 18 size KWKS, 9J Hoyt grade. Movement has A. Rinck, 448 State St, Chicago inscribed on it. The movement is housed in a very heavy 6 oz silver hunter case. Interesting to wonder how the jeweler made out, as the Great Chicago Fire occurred the year before this was made.

8b051d826d69e2a03503220ec1fd904d.jpg 2577b296c43ffda83ea8ab039b74f2d1.jpg c6f96d3dfd6aa85e55b1f556b37a7afd.jpg
 

Christopher Burris

NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Dec 15, 2010
359
426
63
Country
Region
DS Montgomery dial marked “Wehmanen Special”, movement marked “Made Expressly For Wehmanen & Company”, Ser#2427705, , A Lincoln grade, special 2 tone movement 21J, size 18. I believe this might be Nestor Isaac Wehmanen (listed as Jeweler in Census) of Michigan & Minnesota, and later his son Victor (listed as Watchmaker in 1930 Census)

Dave Chaplain listed 2427712 as marked the same in post #108 in this thread. Would like to know if it had the same marked dial. I know PL Lincoln aren’t common, but I also had never seen a PL Montgomery dial.


376 dial.jpg 376 movement.jpg
 

musicguy

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2017
7,496
4,020
113
New York State
Country

Rick Hufnagel

Just Rick!
NAWCC Member
Sponsor
Oct 25, 2018
2,271
3,358
113
36
Pittsburgh pa
Country
Region
1280164
Grade 51
Model 6
15 jewels, not marked adjusted.

A.C. Gies, Pittsburgh, PA! Movement and dial marked

August Charles Gies
Born 1/29/1855
Death 5/2/1944

August Charles Gies is a prominent jeweler and watchmaker from the east end of Pittsburgh. Specifically the Highland Park area (ward 11).

The earliest listings as a watchmaker I found are from the early 1880s on East Diamond st, and later Frankstown Ave. His son (A.C. Gies Jr.) Also involved later on, both are listed as jewelery retail merchants.

Another interesting tidbit, he was an avid numismatist. His favorite coins being Half dollars, and he was very active and involved in the coin collecting community. He held meetings at his store for the Western PA Numismatic Society.

He was also noted as visiting the 1893 world's fair in a list of Pa Jewelers.

Anyways, this movement is quite nice looking for your middle of the road 15 jewel watch. Obviously being from the burgh, I bought it because of the private label. It may be a fun future project. There are some spots, scratches, and vandalization from someone trying to get it to run... Along with at least a quart of what smells like Hoppes gun oil.... lol... Nothing that can't be rectified with some time and effort.

Thanks for checking it out and have a good day!

IMG_20200530_190656577.jpg IMG_20200530_191409258.jpg
 

Forum statistics

Threads
165,503
Messages
1,440,723
Members
86,271
Latest member
HamiltonFan
Encyclopedia Pages
1,101
Total wiki contributions
2,873
Last edit
Weekly News 7/7/19 by Tom McIntyre