Illinois private-labels

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Fred Hansen, Jun 6, 2004.

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  1. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

    Sep 20, 2006
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    Here is a recent $51 buy. It is a ~1921 Burlington Watch Co. 16s, 21J, Grade 107, S/N 3955579. They made a boatload of these. It appears to be in the original (tired) Burlington case and was owned at one time by D. von Dolson. The mainspring is broken, but the balance swings freely. Probably just needs a mainspring and a good cleaning.

    BurlingtonBack.jpg BurlingtonDial.jpg BurlingtonMovement.jpg
     
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  2. marking_time

    marking_time Registered User
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    Dave,
    Did you notice that the dial plate appears to have been over stamped with a new number to coincide with the movement plate number? Could Illinois have had an excess of jeweled dial plates that they renumbered turning this Grade 101 example from a 12 jewel Model 3 into a 16 jewel Model 3. The dial plate 5th pinion hole looks as though it was simply drilled into the plate. This seems like an odd thing to do. Are other examples of 15 jewel Grade 101 movement also renumbered on the dial plate?
    Thanks
    Mike Robie
     
  3. Dave Coatsworth

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    212195 - 'The World', model 2, grade 103, 15 jewel, DS dial.

    Illinois212195Dial.jpg Illinois212195Mvmt.jpg
     
  4. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    1126078 - 'A. F. Pickert, Atlanta, Ga.', 16 size, model 1, grade 111, 11J, SS dial

    Illinois1126078Dial.jpg Illinois1126078Mvmt.jpg
     
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  5. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    211785 - 'Forest Park, St. Louis, Mo.', model 2, grade 103, 15J, DS dial

    Illinois211785Mvmt.jpg Illinois211785Dial.jpg
     
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  6. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    322903 - 'Peerless', model 3, grade 103, 17 jewels (Verified. Database states this is a 16J run.) DS dial. Incidently, this is the first time I have seen a 'Peerless' with a private label dial. This for S. E. Parker of Philadelphia.

    Illinois322903Dial.jpg Illinois322903Mvmt.jpg
     
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  7. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    30904 - 'O. W. Owen, McHenry, Ill.', model 1, Currier grade, 11 jewel

    Illinois30904Mvmt.jpg
     
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  8. Dennis Hubscher

    Dennis Hubscher Registered User

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    This is a John Farrior, Charlotte NC pocket watch I purchased yesterday at a pawn shop in VA... S18, Serial#507679. John Farrior, Charlotte NC  01.jpg John Farrior, Charlotte NC 02.jpg John Farrior, Charlotte NC  03.jpg John Farrior, Charlotte NC  04.jpg
     
  9. Vic Clifford

    Vic Clifford Registered User

    Jan 3, 2019
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    I have a old private label open face. Thought the name was Chris F Lentz until i seen this post. My Great Grandpa watch they were from Greenbriar county wv. the watch says Chaz F Lentz Clifton Forge Va. Not who mfg. is. I was told by Grandma it was 21 Ruby jewels

    IMG_0638.jpg IMG_0638.jpg IMG_0637.jpg
     
  10. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Hello Vic and welcome!
    Can we see the movement?
     
  11. Vic Clifford

    Vic Clifford Registered User

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    You would have to tell me how to take off the back. I do not know anything about pocket watches. I have these two watches that belonged to both by great grand pa's but really do not know anything about how to look at anything. i have read online how to take off back but it does not have a nail tab and the top appears to not do anything.
     
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  12. Dave Coatsworth

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  13. Vic Clifford

    Vic Clifford Registered User

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    okay i got the back open, the back and front are screw/twist off

    IMG_0639.jpg IMG_0640.jpg IMG_0641.jpg IMG_0645.jpg
     
  14. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    It looks like you uploaded the thumbnails of your pictures instead of the full size ones. When you upload the full size ones the software makes a thumbnail for you that you may click on to see the full size one.

    If you use the button below the replay window that says FROM PC you can select the pictures from your computer's fieles. It is set up for you to load up to 10 at a time.
     
  15. Vic Clifford

    Vic Clifford Registered User

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    I think this will work. I am still not sure what I got. My great grandpa never worked for the railroad that I know of. he had a portable saw mill, ran some mules for the coal mines and a farm.

    So is this a common watch? something I need to hold on to (I have had it for 30 years). and who is the mfg? The rail road, the Chaz person?

    IMG_0640.jpg
     
  16. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Definitely not a common watch! It was made by the Illinois Watch Company. These are quite desirable to collectors. I hope you will hold on to it for no other reason than sentimental. You should document everything you know about your grandfather and the watch and keep that information together for future generations.
     
  17. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    1196281 - "Robt. Lurie Special, Chicago", model 2, grade 101 1/2. I have verified that, as stated, it does have 15 jewels. This is contrary to the database which states that this grade should be 11 jewel.

    Illinois1196281Mvmt.jpg
     
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  18. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Fantastic watch!

    As Dave wrote it was made by Illinois, and was produced in about 1897 and would have been Illinois' finest quality 18 size movement at that time. Chas. F. Sentz (the name on your watch is Sentz, not Lentz) was a jeweler and also served as a railroad watch inspector for the Chesapeake & Ohio Railroad. The railroad marking of your watch is quite rare and is extremely desirable to collectors, and your dial and movement look to be in strong cosmetic condition.
     
  19. Vic Clifford

    Vic Clifford Registered User

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    great to know. My Grandmother told me her dad said he paid I think she said $100 or $200 for it. Which was a lot in WV at that time. He passed in 1930. Not sure if he bought it new or used because he would have only been around 20 at the time (1897 or so) . Our part of WV is not far from Clifton Forge though.

    So what is the aprox value of it. it works. My grandmother had in in box since 1930's and then gave it to me in the 80's.

    thanks for all your info though. Me or my Grandmother really did not know much about it besides her dad carried it.

    Vic
     
  20. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I would also like to say what a beautiful 24 jewel PL Bunn Special
    That is a great family heirloom!

    RE: "So what is the approx. value of it."
    This is the educational side of the forum so no values are allowed to be discussed here
    there is a specific place on the forum to discuss values
    Go here: What is this WATCH worth?


    Rob
     
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  21. Christopher Burris

    Christopher Burris Registered User
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    John S Allen & Co, Minneapolis, Minn. Bunn 17 Jewel, Model 4, Pendant Set, OF 2-Tone, marked 17 Jewels on the barrel plate.
    Serial Number 1178347. 17th Jewel confirmed

    347 dial.jpg 347 movement.jpg
     
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  22. Dave Coatsworth

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    112138 - 'H. S. Hyde, Martinsburg, W. Va.', model 1, Columbia grade, 11J, Plain SS dial.

    Illinois112138Mvmt.jpg
     
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  23. viclip

    viclip Registered User
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    Picked something up yesterday, a nice running 16-size Illinois private label Model 9, Grade 706 lever-setter with 17j adjusted to 4 positions, manufactured circa 1915.

    The dial is signed "Illinois Special".

    Its movement indicates "Segerstrom's Illinois Special Rhinelander, Wis."

    The inner case back is stamped: "Segerstrom's Watch House Guaranteed 20 Years Rhinelander, Wis."; the case serial number is 9463256 without attribution to any particular case maker.

    The outside of the back cover has a professional looking monogram but for the life of me I cannot decipher it.

    The case is actually yellow gold filled, notwithstanding how it may look in the photos:


    Segerstrom Dial.jpg Segerstrom Mvt.jpg Segerstrom Inner Case.jpg Segerstrom Mono.jpg

    Segerstrom Dial.jpg Segerstrom Dial.jpg
     
  24. Dave Coatsworth

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    211154 - 'Charles Sumner, Boston', model 3, grade 103, 17J (verified, database has this as a 16J run), DS 'Charles Sumner' dial

    Illinois211154Dial.jpg Illinois211154Mvmt.jpg
     
  25. Dave Coatsworth

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    211673 - 'President, New York', model 3 (database incorrectly states 2), grade 103, 17 jewels (verified).

    Illinois211673Mvmt.jpg
     
  26. Dave Coatsworth

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    2114988 - 'The C. C. Norris Special, USA', 16-size, model 4, grade 174, 17 jewels

    Illinois2114988Mvmt.jpg Illinois2114988Dial.jpg
     
  27. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    1439353 - 'The Cowell & Hubbard Co., Cleveland, O.', 16-size, model 5, grade 172, 11 jewels. (Note the obviously deceptive '17 jewels' stamped on the movement.)

    Illinois1439353Mvmt.jpg
     
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  28. Christopher Burris

    Christopher Burris Registered User
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    1526705 - W.C.Fisher Lorain, Ohio 16-size model 4, Sangamo grade, 21 jewel (early use of 3rd pattern finish)

    351 dial.jpg 351 movement.jpg
     
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  29. 4thdimension

    4thdimension Registered User

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    #1452460 signed "Sutcliffe & Co./ Louisville, Ky" on movement and on the double sunk dial.-Cort
     
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  30. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Partial Wathier and a Capital.

    img568.jpg img569.jpg img570.jpg
     
  31. Dave Coatsworth

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    214654 - 'Peerless', model 3, grade 103, 17 jewel (verified as 17J although the database says 16J)

    Illinois214654Dial.jpg Illinois214654Mvmt.jpg
     
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  32. Dave Coatsworth

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    282703 - 'John B. Roden, Birmingham, Ala.', model 2, grade 99, 11J

    Illinois282703Mvmt.jpg
     
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  33. Dave Coatsworth

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    377961 - 'Wimmer, Indianapolis, Ind.', model 3, grade 2, 11J

    Illinois377961Mvmt.jpg
     
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  34. Dave Coatsworth

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    1177996 - '(Jacob) Gmerlich & (E. J.) Huber, Boonville, Mo.', model 2, grade 64, 15 jewels, SS dial

    Illinois1177996Dial.jpg Illinois1177996Mvmt.jpg

    Huber began as an apprentice to Mr. Gmerlich in 1873. He eventually became partner, staying with the firm until 1906.
     
  35. RyanM

    RyanM Registered User
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    Henry Bockstruck
    St. Paul, Minn.

    The above on dial and movement.
    20190329_222147.jpg
    20190329_222340.jpg
    16s, 17j, grade 175, model 4
    SN 1454825
     
  36. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    #1136 Dave Coatsworth, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
    1167275 - 'W. H. Evans, Red Oak, Ia.', model 4, grade 101 1/2. There's a discrepancy in the number of jewels. The database says 11 whereas the movement says 15. I'll pull the dial later and update this entry accordingly.

    Illinois1167275Dial.jpg Illinois1167275Mvmt.jpg

    Edit: Pulling the dial has confirmed that this is a 15 jewel movement.
     
  37. stickfly

    stickfly Registered User

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    Wow! Just been reading through this thread.
    There's so much I havn't finished reading through it all yet.
    This one seen on ebay. Says that it's a 12s, 19j built in 1909 for the Landis Watch Company.

    01.jpg 02.jpg
     
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  38. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Timpane & Jackson Troy, New York
    1305724 Grade 174 16s 17j circa 1896
    19305DC4-8180-4807-AF75-F6C2F7966C22 (2).jpeg 27DF695F-9BEA-4DE0-A432-6E72BF285D3F (2).jpeg


    Rob
     
  39. Dave Coatsworth

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    501538 - 'C. Bradford', model 2, grade 104

    Illinois501538Dial.jpg Illinois501538Mvmt.jpg
     
  40. Lee Passarella

    Lee Passarella Registered User
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    That's a venerable Illinois for sure, Dave.
     
  41. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Not so pretty, but I just can't say 'no' to a California label...

    48970 - 'J. S. Gerard, Woodbridge, Cal.', model 1, Currier grade, 11J, SS dial

    Illinois48970Dial.jpg Illinois48970Mvmt.jpg
     
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  42. Tom McIntyre

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    A stud and a little work on the hairspring and it should be as good as new.:)
     
  43. Dave Coatsworth

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    1049520 - 'F. W. Sim & Co., Troy, NY, The Gem', 16-size, model 2 (pendant set), grade 116, 16 jewel, DS dial

    Illinois1049520Dial.jpg illinois1049520Mvmt.jpg
     
  44. Dave Coatsworth

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    214555 - Monogram presumably for Otto Young & Co., model 3, grade 103, 17 jewel (Verified. Database says this run is 16J.) DS dial.

    Illinois214555Mvmt.jpg Illinois214555Dial.jpg
     
  45. marking_time

    marking_time Registered User
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    This watch is also posted on the Illinois grade 177 thread. This is the only Grade 177 I have seen. It is also the only PL, "Chapman and Armstrong, Galesburg, Ill" 16S-17RJ-HN4L-A5/6PI-Grade 177. This is an uncommon Illinois pocket watch with a total production of 280. Does anyone have definitive evidence of the number of position adjustments or another example for the HN4L version of this grade?

    1,330,009 12.jpg 1,330,009 13.jpg 1,330,009 17.jpg
     
  46. Dave Coatsworth

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    214541 - Unidentified monogram, model 3, grade 103, 17 jewel (Verfied. Database states this run is 16J.)

    Illinois214541Mvmt.jpg Illinois214541Dial.jpg
     
  47. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    How neat is that! Only 14 #s apart!
     
  48. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Yes, they probably left the factory at the same time and came to me in the same week!
     
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  49. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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  50. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    That is what I think I see, with the possibility of an 'M' in place of the 'V'. Hard to tell if those downward strokes are part of an 'M' or just flourishes.
     

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