Illinois private-labels

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Fred Hansen, Jun 6, 2004.

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  1. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
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    I’ll add 4 more

    16S, 17j, model 7 bridge model, 2tone, marked M. Goldberg Pittsburg, PA
    Dial ds, enamel, Roman The Union Leader. M. Goldberg. Pittsburg, PA

    18S, 17j, adj, LS, OF sn 3,224,101
    Dial. DS, enamel, Arabic. Marked A C Kealy. Norwood, NY

    18S, model 2, nickel, 15j, chalmers reg, sn 272,961.
    Marked Simon Ficher (or could be Ticher)
    Dial enamel, DS, Illinois Watch Co

    Dial. 16S, DS, enamel, Arabic marked E. P. Roberts & Sons. Pittsburgh
    Movement model 5, 17j. Not PL marked.
     
  2. Nigel Harrison

    Nigel Harrison Registered User

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    More great watches Dave. This 116 I do like a lot, very nice quality that is for sure with a lot of solid gold fittings.
     
  3. Nigel Harrison

    Nigel Harrison Registered User

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    I love the dial signature on this piece Chris...as well as the movement of course.
     
  4. Christopher Burris

    Christopher Burris Registered User
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    1613308 - Movement marked: "J P Taylor", "Special", "Emporia, VA"; 18S 17J grade 61; Dial: DS marked "J.P. Taylor", "EMPORIA VA"

    330 movement.jpg 330 dial.jpg
     
  5. Stephen Matusek

    Stephen Matusek Registered User
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    #1055 Stephen Matusek, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
    Thank you very much Tom, I did not know that little bit of trivia on Pittsburgh. Very interesting.
    Greg, Fred is spot on about Kirkham being an inspector. I typed in Kirkham Jewelers, Leavenworth, Kansas & Google Books has a fair sized ad in it:

    Armor

    I just found one I was looking for, Sommer & Pierik, sn 712774, 18s, 17j along with the 5th pinion. Unfortunately the dial is plain & no jeweled 5th. It runs.

    fullsizeoutput_626.jpeg fullsizeoutput_624.jpeg
     
  6. Christopher Burris

    Christopher Burris Registered User
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    1,271,593 Dial and movement marked, Paillard Non Magnetic Watch Co, Chicago, U.S.A.; 18S, 21 Jewel, Bunn Special Grade, OF

    331 movement.jpg 331 dial.jpg
     
  7. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    I have a pair of scarce high-grade private label Illinois Grade 299s.

    The first is a 23j/5adj OF Phelps & Perry, signed on both the dial and the movement. It is in a 14k Solidarity case that formerly housed an Illinois Grade 406.

    IMG_4340.JPG IMG_4341.JPG IMG_8287_edited.JPG

    The second is a 21j/5adj hunter. The dial is signed J. Herbert Hall Co,, Pasadena, but the movement is only signed by Illinois. It is in a multi-color 14k box-hinged Elgin Giant W.C. Co. case that formerly housed an Illinois Grade 274. Because I live in Pasadena, I am especially fond of this Hall PL. The Pasadena branch of J. Herbert Hall closed many years ago, although a branch still seems to exist in Phoenix. I remember going to the Pasadena store once. It was large and impressive, like J.E. Caldwell in Philadelphia, now also sadly gone. Dave Coatesworth showed a Getty model J. Herbert Hall PL in post 709.

    IMG_5490_edited (773x1024).jpg IMG_5491_edited (789x1024).jpg DSC02930 (1024x1001).jpg DSC02937 (1024x894).jpg

    I have admitted recasing these watches. The Phelps, one of 230 23j OF299s made, came in a nice gold-filled case, but I felt it belonged in a period-correct solid gold case. Over 100,000 Illinois Grade 406s were made. I did no great harm to our horological legacy by swapping the cases.

    I acquired the Hall as an uncased movement. Only between about 900 and 1100 Grade 299 hunters were made, and only a few have the damascening pattern my Hall has. It needed a case and it deserved a fine one. My Grade 274 was one of about 70,000 made. It had a damaged dial. The movement was made in 1925, long after multi-color gold cases had cease to be in vogue. Again, I did no great harm by putting the Hall into the Grade 274's case.
     
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  8. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

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    Illinois Grade 306, 16S, 17J, HC, S/N 2505887
    Dial: Illinois Central
    Movement: Illinois Watch Co, Springfield, Illinois Central

    IllinoisCentralDial.jpg IllinoisCentralMovement.jpg
     
  9. Dave Coatsworth

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    1237761 - 'Reinhardt & Mittendorff, Lincoln, Ill.', 16 size, model 1, grade 114, 15J, SS dial

    Illinois1237761Mvmt.jpg Illinois1237761Dial.jpg
     
  10. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    2563205 - J. C. Neal Poughkeepsie, NY - 0 size - Grade 33 - 11j - SS dial
    Update to my older post with better photographs Illinois private-labels#959

    pough.jpg illinois poughkeepsie.jpg


    Rob
     
  11. kevin h

    kevin h Registered User

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    Another for ilinois private labels is a Tripps special 17j Bunn , Millerton NH

    DSC01887.JPG DSC01890.JPG
     
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  12. Dave Coatsworth

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    211978 - 'Major', model 3, grade 103, 17 jewel (Confirmed by removing dial. Misidentified as 16J on the CD), DS dial.

    Illinois211978Dial.jpg Illinois211978Mvmt.jpg
     
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  13. Nigel Harrison

    Nigel Harrison Registered User

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    Great Watch Dave, I like the I.W.Co on the barrel bridge and Bunn Quality dial as well. Very Fine.
     
  14. Bildeborg

    Bildeborg Registered User

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    Hi, I see you were seeking out info on Washington Watch Company pieces made by Illinois. I just bought one (it arrives tomorrow) and this is how the ad was written....

    "This is an 18 size, lever set and pendant wind open faced 'Private Label' pocket watch by made by the Illinois Watch Company for the Washington Watch Company. The serial number:- 3139937 dates the movement to 1917, so just over 100 years old. It is a, 'Army and Navy' Grade 65.

    The nickel finished full plate movement with gold lettering is equipped with 21 jewels in gold screwed in mounts, adjusted to temperature and 5 positions and a micrometric regulator.

    The double sunk dial is the typical railroad style with bold black Arabic numerals with red 5 minute markers plus blued steel hands.

    The movement is housed in a very substantial, heavy nickel case with screwed back and bezel and is by the Illinois Watch Case Company."


    I hope you find this helpful.

    Regards,

    Jay.
     
  15. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    1146349 - " D. R. Merritt Croton Falls, NY ", 16 size, Model 2, grade 114, 15J, SS dial (DeWitt Merritt)


    illinois 1892.jpg illinois 2.jpg

    Rob
     
  16. Dave Coatsworth

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    271379 - 'H. Wykhuysen, Holland, Mich.', model 1, grade 101, 11J, SS dial

    Illinois271379Mvmt.jpg
     
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  17. Dave Coatsworth

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    65310 - 'Max Forchheimer, Cleveland, O.', model 3, Miller grade, 17 jewel (verified by pulling dial), DS dial

    Illinois65310Dial.jpg Illinois65310Mvmt.jpg
     
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  18. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
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    A few to add. I will add more as I go.

    Despatch serial 258664

    20180605_225754.jpg

    20180605_225814.jpg

    BOV New York Serial 98609

    20180605_225909.jpg

    20180605_225922.jpg

    Independent Watch Co Illinois Howard Bros Serial 146676

    20180605_230232.jpg

    20180605_230305.jpg

    Hudson with a Boston & Main RR monogram. Serial 218506

    20180605_230406.jpg

    20180605_230437.jpg

    Standard Watch Co Pittsburgh PA Nation serial 899256

    20180605_230512.jpg

    20180605_230526.jpg
     
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  19. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Your 'BOV' is actually 'OBV' for Oppenheimer Brothers & Veith.
     
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  20. Kevin Neathery

    Kevin Neathery Registered User
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    Awesome! Thank you. I will update the card.
     
  21. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    You may have seen this before, but I was too lazy to go through all 22 pages. Imperial Watch Co, Chicago .Key & Stem wind 15 Jewel.. Allan

    IMG_2024.JPG IMG_2022 (2).JPG IMG_2020.JPG IMG_2023.JPG
     
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  22. Dave Coatsworth

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    502890 - 'A. Armbruster & Son, Springfield, Ill.', model 2, grade 61, 15 jewels, SS 'twig' dial.

    Illinois502890Dial.jpg Illinois502890Mvmt.jpg
     
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  23. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    1348523 - Hunting - 'L. Beckman, Kendallville, IND." model 5, grade 51, 15 jewels SS dial
    circa 1896

    illinois pl(2).jpg illinois3.jpg
    illinoia PL.jpg illinois pl2.jpg

    Rob
     
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  24. Stephen Matusek

    Stephen Matusek Registered User
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    #1074 Stephen Matusek, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
    i have a couple more. I'm into RR watches but sometimes I do get one here & there that aren't. This first one is not a RR grade but I thought it was interesting. The name on the movement is Julius Van Vliet, 752 Market St., S.F., serial #260892, 11j, grade 101-S,1886.
    The other one is a RR grade, J.C. Beitel & Son, Catasauqua, PA., serial #1601494, 15j, grade 64, 1902
    Both hunters.

    Steve

    fullsizeoutput_84b.jpeg fullsizeoutput_851.jpeg fullsizeoutput_855.jpeg
     
  25. marking_time

    marking_time Registered User
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    I have many Illinois PL pocket watches that I will post as time permits. I was intrigued by the reference in Kevin Neathery's post #1068 to the movement marked "Hudson" and the MB monogram. Does the MB monogram stand for "Boston and Main RR" or is it one of the many monogram variations used by "Meister and Bierbaum" early St. Louis jewelers?
    Here are images of an Illinois movement marked "Meister and Bierbaum":
    342916 (8-9/1881) 18S-11J-HG1K-U-Columbia grade.
    342916 3.jpg 342916 5.jpg 342916 7.jpg 342916 8.jpg

    And my example of a "Hudson" with the MB monogram. 217604 (5/1880) 18S-11J-HN2L-T-Grade 101.
    217,604 16.jpg
    I am very curious about the MB monogram.
     
  26. marking_time

    marking_time Registered User
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    I found another example of a Hudson with the MB monogram: 220394 (6-7/1880) 18S-11J-HN2L-T-grade 101.
    220,394 2.jpg
     
  27. Stephen Matusek

    Stephen Matusek Registered User
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    I have an Illinois 18s sn 1601494 with both the dial & movement signed J.C. Beitel & Son, Catasauqua, PA. The mainspring seems to be broken in it at the moment. I was able to manipulate the barrel & get it to work but I'm sure it could use servicing.

    Steve

    fullsizeoutput_8a5.jpeg fullsizeoutput_8a6.jpeg
     
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  28. marking_time

    marking_time Registered User
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    I didn't check all 22 pages to see if this has been posted before. The 21RJ Getty model hunter case Sangamo is fairly uncommon. The total production, with these markings, is 1,095. 16S-21RJ-HN4L-T6PI-Double Roller. This specimen is from the first run with these marking: 1,944,401 to 1,944,600 in 1907. This run is split between B. Franklin and Ariston. Ariston was the private label for Marshall Field, the premier downtown Chicago department store for over a century. Only 360 of these Sangamo HC Ariston marked movements are listed in the DB. As you can see this is marked "Ariston" with MFCo. monogram (logo). The dial is correct and probably original with this movement. Does anybody have an empty Ariston, MFCo marked 16S hunter case laying around? This movement needs one. Sets, winds and runs just fine. I posted the same movement and dial on the Getty model thread.
    1,977,507 1.jpg 1,977,507 20.jpg 1,977,507 9.jpg
     
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  29. 8x57mauser

    8x57mauser Registered User

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    I specifically look for private lables tired to Boston or other towns in Massachusetts. So even though the dial on this one was badly damaged I had to have it. Nice grade 175 from about 1896.

    Most of it should clean up, but too bad about the chip in the Boston, Mass.

    20180709_134226.jpg 20180709_134513.jpg
     
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  30. StanJS

    StanJS Registered User

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    Here is a ~1921 16S 19J Grade 706 S/N 3888105 marked "Elite":

    EliteDial.jpg EliteMovement.jpg
     
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  31. 8x57mauser

    8x57mauser Registered User

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    Here is my Grade 65, 15j private lable for William Kerr and Son, Boston Massachusetts.

    This may not be the original dial as i have others though Hamilton that are marked on both dial and movement.

    20180719_184640.jpg 20180719_184904.jpg 20180719_184721.jpg
     
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  32. Dave Coatsworth

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    1240712 - 'J. W. Coatsworth, Galena, Ill.', model 2, grade 65, 17 jewels, DS dial

    Illinois1240712Dial.jpg Illinois1240712Mvmt.jpg
     
  33. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    1182984 - 'Ganargua Valley', 16 size, model 2 (pendant set), grade 114, 16 jewels, DS dial

    Illinois1182984Mvmt.jpg Illinois1182984Dial.jpg
     
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  34. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    1237610 - 'G. A. Schlechter, Reading, Pa.', 16-size, grade 114, 15 jewels, SS dial

    Illinois1237610Dial.jpg Illinois1237610Mvmt.jpg
     
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  35. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    1183062 - 'Railway Queen', 16-size, model 1, grade 116, 18 jewels, DS dial

    Illinois1183062Dial.jpg Illinois1183062Mvmt.jpg
     
  36. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    #1086 Dave Coatsworth, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
    273078 - 'H(erman). Oppenheimer & Co., Kansas City, Mo.' Database says it's a grade 101 but I actually believe it is a 100. I'll have to pull the dial to get a jewel check.

    Edit: I have pulled the dial. The movement is 11 jewels. Consistent with what I find most grade 100 movements to be. The main difference between the grade 101 and grade 100 is that the grade 100 has jewels in settings whereas the grade 101 are burnished in.

    H. Oppenheimer & Co. was established in Kansas City in 1880.

    Illinois273078Mvmt.jpg Illinois273078Dial.jpg
     
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  37. Dave Coatsworth

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    306730 - 'Webster', model 2, Currier grade, 13 jewels, SS dial

    Illinois306730Mvmt.jpg
     
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  38. terry hall

    terry hall Registered User
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    methinks i had my grubbies on this one at York... shooda cooda wooda .... congrats
     
  39. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Hard not to pick this one up and stare.
     
  40. Dave Coatsworth

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    228249 - 'Lake Erie', model 1, grade 101, 11 jewels, SS dial

    Illinois228249Mvmt.jpg
     
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  41. Dave Coatsworth

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    1424558 - 'Washington', model 5, grade 64, 17 jewels, DS dial

    Illinois1424558Dial.jpg Illinois1424558Mvmt.jpg
     
  42. Christopher Burris

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    1335307 – “John Becks, Michigan City, IND” 18 size, Model 6, Bunn grade, 17J, circular “First” pattern. DS dial mark same. This is the same person as more often seen using “Becks Special” on PL. All others I found posted here where “Becks Specials”


    338 dial.jpg 338 movement.jpg
     
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  43. Dave Coatsworth

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    320835 - 'John St.', model 3, grade 103, 17J (verified by pulling dial)

    Illinois320835Mvmt.jpg
     
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  44. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    #1094 Dave Coatsworth, Sep 12, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
    712665 - 'Cobb & Waldorf (no salad jokes, please!), Hornellsville, New York', model 3, grade 5, 15 jewel.

    Waldorf is George A. Waldorf who came to Hornellsville in 1874 to work for the Pullman Company. In 1885, he bought out F. J. Hutchinson of jewelry firm of Hutchinson & Cobb and thus became the firm of Cobb & Waldorf.

    Illinois712665Dial.jpg Illinois712665Mvmt.jpg
     
  45. kevin h

    kevin h Registered User

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    I have a nice one to add It is Illinois 1482201, grade 99, 11j , Railroad Dispatcher , on movement , JMR on dial [?] I believe it is John M Roberts , I saw a lot of 16s gettys but saw nothing on 18s , the price guide shows a railroad dispatch extra or spacial 15-17j as a one star , I wonder if they meant to include the 11j

    20180914_121332.jpg 20180914_121556.jpg
     
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  46. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    The jeweling on this one was a bit of a surprise...

    308720 - 'Standard Watch Co., Eclipse', model 3, Grade 101, SS blank dial. The grade 101 is typically an 11 jewel movement, even with the 5th pinion. I grabbed this one because it had a jeweled 5th pinion. My expectation was that it would be a 12 jewel movement. I was surprised to peek under the dial and see the train, except for the 5th pinion, jeweled. So, a 16 jewel grade 101 movement.

    Illinois308720UnderDial.jpg Illinois308720Mvmt.jpg Illinois308720Dial.jpg
     
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  47. Dave Coatsworth

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    272945 - 'Delaware River', model 2, grade 100, 11J (verified by pulling dial), DS dial

    Illinois272945Mvmt.jpg
     
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  48. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #1098 Keith R..., Oct 13, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
    Dave, at 11J you coulda left the dial on. Nice watch.

    Keith R...


    Edit for Dave. Fixes me Dave, thanks.

    KR...
     
  49. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    The grade 100 is one of the grades that interest me. With jewels in settings on the top plate, you would expect it to be 15J and the database states as much for most of them. However, I am finding many of the grade 100's that are called out at 15J are really 11J. In fact, I have now pulled enough dials to state with some comfort that the majority of the grade 100 is 11J. This particular run was identified as a mixed 11 and 15 jewel run. Just one of those little things in the database that I would like to be able to refine some day.
     
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  50. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
    NAWCC Business Sponsor

    Feb 11, 2005
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    214861 - 'Hartman', model 2, grade 103, 15 jewels, SS dial

    Illinois214861Mvmt.jpg
     
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