Illinois pocket watch with no Label on Movement

Christopher Burris

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I just bought an Illinois pocket watch size 18 with a dial marked for G.H.Chruchill, Amsterdam, NY but the movement has no label. No writing on the movement but it serial number 2384028 and 17 jewels. The regulator is engraved as normal including it's S F. How odd is this?

Thanks for your help
Chris
 

John Cote

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It is not very odd at all. Although it is probably that this jeweler just ordered the dial to be marked with his private label it could be that the dial, which will fit almost any other openface 18s Illinois, could have been switched to this movement at some time in its life.

Anyway it is not at all odd to see a PL marked dial on a normal Illinois movement for either of the above possible reasons.

BTW, this is a grade 69 from 1911. I have seen the 69 with both single and double sunk dials.
 

John Cote

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Christopher Burris;516010 said:
Ok, I understand, but the movement isn't even marked Illinois Watch Co.
That is certainly a little bit more odd. This is why we love Illinois watches...they are all a little odd.....and some more than others.
 

Fred Hansen

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Hi Chris -

Definitely uncommon but not completely unheard of, and it makes sense that it is paired with a private label dial as this is what I remember with a few others.

Absolutely a cool watch you have and one of the countless reasons collecting Illinois watches never gets old!

Fred
 

Jim Carroll

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I have found another size 12 unmarked movement in my records, also a grade 255; Ser No. 2515370 comes from the run 2515321 - 3515400 = 80. The private label name on dial is R P Thorn & Sons.
 

John Cote

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Actually, some of my favorite unmarked Illinois movements are the very high grade 16s Getty style model 4 and 5 grades 181, 187 and 189 to name a few.

View attachment 4251

I have really never understood why Illinois would not want to have the company name on these top end movements. I have heard several ideas floated around but never one that made me go "ah yes". Some of these were private labels too....but not all...I don't think.
 

rrwatch

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I have often wondered if the movements made without any manufacturers name on it were made that way so that the selling jeweler could engrave the customers name on the movement when the watch was sold. We have seen examples engraved "made expressly for name of customer" on them.
Another possibility is that Illinois made them that way to avaid a conflict with another jeweler in the same town that had exclusive territorial rights to sell "Illinois" watches.
Until some factory letters or other documentation is found to give us the definite answer, we may never know for sure.
 

Bratdaddy@mac.com

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My first thought was Illinois allowed their craftsmen to show off their artistry without distraction. No shortage of superlatives apply when describing the beauty of this movement. Sublime.
 

Christopher Burris

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Thanks for all the info, I was expecting to be told it was a watch that didn't pass final inspection or was a "lunch box" watch.
Happy Holidays
Chris
 

mauleg

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Another "No Name" Illinois model 4 movement. This one's a grade 184 with the "wavy" damaskeening and finished gold center and 3rd wheels. Another seeming oddity is the DS Burlington Special Montgomery dial. A retrofit perhaps?

210511.jpg
210512.jpg
 

terry hall

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A retrofit perhaps?
I'd say so
would be a definite 'oddity' for an unmarked Burlington Movement based on the marketing employed at the time.

the movement pic is stalling on download...

how's case marked?
 

Fred Hansen

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Most likely the dial was paired with the movement at some point later in their history.

Many 3 finger bridge Getty model movements are unsigned, I think likely this had to do with the limited space available with this plate design.
 

mauleg

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terry hall;886032 said:
the movement pic is stalling on download...
I've uploaded the images to our server for you, click to view:

http://www.angildesign.com/images/watches/1673370.jpg

http://www.angildesign.com/images/watches/1673370-face.jpg

terry hall;886032 said:
how's case marked?
The case is a Dueber 20-year case, no extra screw marks, so possibly original, but I'd not stake anything on it. Were it a Burlington case, that would be more interesting, for certain.
 

terry hall

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My understanding though that Burlington were only sold cased in Burlington marked cases.
 

mauleg

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terry hall;886068 said:
My understanding though that Burlington were only sold cased in Burlington marked cases.
Correct, but if the dial was a retrofit and the movement is an Illinois rather than a Burlington, then there's a remote chance that the case could be original. Hence, my comment, "Were it a Burlington case, that would be more interesting, for certain".
 

Christopher Burris

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Fred Hansen;886047 said:
Many 3 finger bridge Getty model movements are unsigned, I think likely this had to do with the limited space available with this plate design.
Fred, I never posted pictures of the original watch starting this thread, being a size 18 watch it left has lots of wasted space and looks very out of place.

210604.jpg 210605.jpg

-chris-
 

Fred Hansen

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Cool piece and I don't remember seeing anything similarly unmarked on the barrel bridge like this in another 18 size Illinois of this era.
 

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