Illinois hairspring collet glued to balance staff

[penjunky]

Extra good looking Illinois 18s 17j lever set. First thing hit my eye, collet broken and glued to staff, yellowish stuff don't look like shellac. Guess I'll soak it in acetone see what happens. My first Illinois so don't have any spare parts and don't want to have to try a different hairspring, so maybe find a loaner and just change collets, maybe even whole staff if it fits. I do have other spare hairsprings with good collets so will do a little measuring, might match one up.

Thought I'd see what you guys had to say.

I took the dial off, took a good look under the scope and see why it's so clean, seems it's been recently serviced, or attempted, seen the oil, all the jewels look good, all the pivots fit good, think I'll take a look at the mainspring, if it needs one I'll change it but am very seriously thinking about just putting it back together just to see how it keeps time until the next service then fix the hairspring collet then, or if it breaks loose before. I know the thing to do is fix it now, a debate I'm having with myself.

I should have seen how good it ran before dismantle but we all know what to expect buying from ebay.

 

[Skutt50]

The collet seems so open it might interfer with the inner turn of the hairspring which should affect the timekeeping.

Changing a collet is not that simple. Just getting the old tapered pin out can be challanging. If you feel up to it the best thing is of course to change the collet. Question is why is it broken? Did someone already replace the hairspring with one that had a collet that is too small? If so the hairspring may be mismatched to the balance and timekeeping my be off to start with. I would start with getting it running and checking the time keeping before investing in a collet replacement........

You can also check if there are some numbers inscribed under the spockets of the balance. These numbers should match the serial number of the movement unless the balance is already a replacement......

 

[penjunky]

The collet seems so open it might interfer with the inner turn of the hairspring which should affect the timekeeping.

Changing a collet is not that simple. Just getting the old tapered pin out can be challanging. If you feel up to it the best thing is of course to change the collet. Question is why is it broken? Did someone already replace the hairspring with one that had a collet that is too small? If so the hairspring may be mismatched to the balance and timekeeping my be off to start with. I would start with getting it running and checking the time keeping before investing in a collet replacement........

You can also check if there are some numbers inscribed under the spockets of the balance. These numbers should match the serial number of the movement unless the balance is already a replacement......

Hey there skutt

I first noticed something odd about the balance wheel but lost lost interest when I saw the collet. This is the first wheel I've seen with such few screws, a couple has the head shaved off and I saw imprint marks where some screws ''used to be'' so guessing the balance was re-poised to the new (now out of balance) collet repair. Since this collet sets off to one side and filled with that clabbered milk looking stuff, I agree with you that it would affect the timekeeping. So it wouldn't be wise for me to change the collet and or the hairspring cause it would just throw the balance wheel back out of poise, and I agree with you about the hairspring and balance might already be mismatched and that would be my biggest concern.

Since the rest of the watch is in such good shape I plan to go through my book to see how how many grade/model #'s use the same staff and try to pick up a loaner hoping the balance wheel and hairspring are matched cause this staff looks and fits good.

I used an oilier to open the grove in a collet once but the collet was frozen to the staff and it broke, maybe the same here, or like you said too small. I'm gonna guess it was re-staffed and broken when taking off.

What few numbers I found on the scratched up balance arm didn't match any number on the watch, so I will be looking for both a balance wheel and a hairspring.

Thanks...Roger

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

That many screws missing, added to the broken collet, tells me that this is not the original Illinois hairspring.

 

[Skutt50]

What few numbers I found on the scratched up balance arm didn't match any number on the watch, so I will be looking for both a balance wheel and a hairspring.

I totally agree. Not worth the effort to spend time on this balance/hairspring. Looks like a beginners attempt to poise a balance and to fit a new hairspring.......

If you find a donor movement with matching balance/serial number it might be worth it to use this as a donor movement and fix one complete movement where the numbers match.....

 

[penjunky]

That many screws missing, added to the broken collet, tells me that this is not the original Illinois hairspring.

Hey Dave

No tellin what's been changed. Looks like a new staff cause the newness ain't wore off of the pivots yet, so maybe the guy just put any random part on. I'll also have to address the roller jewel cause where it hits the pallet fork is angled too much for me, looks like it might have been chipped then filed down smooth but uphill all the way. Check the poise tomorrow then think I'll drop the balance back in and give it a few winds just to take a look see.

Take care...Roger

 

[penjunky]

If you find a donor movement with matching balance/serial number it might be worth it to use this as a donor movement and fix one complete movement where the numbers match.....

Hey Skutt

Your suggestion seems to be the thing to do for sure, but in the famous words of Forrest Gump ''Buying off of ebay is like a box of chocolate, you never know what you're gonna get''.

I'll try to find a movement and maybe the seller might help me out as to the overall condition.

Take care...Roger