Illinois 21J unadjusted?

[Junkhunter]

At an antique store last week I came across a 16 size 21 jewel Illinois Hunter that had no adjustment markings. I passed on it since it was a recased sidewinder and my interest in Illinois watches is generally low.

When I got home I thought twice about it, and realized that I have never seen one before. I didn't record the s/n, but it was a Sangamo style with parrallel line damaskeening, and the jewel settings did not look to be gold, but it did have cap jewels on the pallet and escape wheel. DS Illinois porcelain dial. Every appearance of a middle-of-road watch except for 21 jewels. Is this something I should run back and buy, or are these common??

 

[49stude63]

Depending on the price I probably would go back and pick it up. Sometimes higher jeweled hunters tend to be rare birds.

 

[Junkhunter]

I may go have second look and at least document the s/n. $175 so no huge loss if it turns out to be common...

 

[Fred Hansen]

Sounds like a grade 174. It is a 3/4 plate rather than a 3 finger bridge, correct?

Fred

 

[49stude63]

I looked in Shugart's 2000 book and it didn't list many HC 21j Illinois and they were all a bit pricey. If you can ante up a serial number I am sure that would help, one of my older price guides does have Illinois sn listing>grade.

 

[Fred Hansen]

Following up on my earlier post ...

The 21 jewel unadjusted Getty model Illinois grades are the 174, 174-B, and 184.

If the movement is a 3/4 plate it is a 174 and the total production of the 21J HC Gr. 174 is 1090.

If the movement is a 3 finger bridge it is a 174-B or a 184. A quick way to determine between these two is that if the serial number is in the 1.3 millions it would be a 174-B, if it is 1.4 million or higher it is a 184. The total production of the 21J HC Gr. 174-B is 50, and the total production of the 21J HC Gr. 184 is 336.

If you do see the watch again please post a serial number and we can confirm which of these grades it is.

Your assessment of the watch's quality is dead on ... the 21 jewel versions of these 3 grades are basically the equal to their much more common 17 jewel versions of the same grade with the exception of a few added cap jewels. They do not have the adjustment, gold jewel settings, gold balance screws, gold train, or some of the other high grade features of the top 21 jewel Getty model grades (which were the 179, 181, 189, and Sangamo).

Whether you should buy the watch or not depends on the condition/originality, which of the 3 grades it is, and of course on how much you like the watch.

Fred

p.s. Illinois actually made the 174, 174-B, and 184 in unadjusted 23 Jewel versions as well!

 

[Junkhunter]

Thanks for the replys guys! It is indeed a 3/4 plate, so grade 174. It is in really nice condition except for the recase - if it were in a decent original case I would have snapped it up. 1090 is a low production watch by the standards of my collection - if it's still there I'll get the s/n, and depending on how I feel about it after a minute or two in hand it may come home with me...

 

[49stude63]

You might post the price and some pictures and someone on here might want a shot at it if you pass on it. Hopefully no one gets upset at that thought but someone may be looking for one of these and a lead is a lead.

 

[John Cote]

These low quality high jewel Illinois watches are interesting. I usually snap them up if they are cheap but leave them alone when they approach RR watch prices. I used to think that because they are low production and sort of scarce that they should be worth something reflecting their rarity....but I was wrong. The market dictates the price and in my experience nobody wants them badly enough. This is an interesting phenomenon. I think a collection of these oddities would be pretty nice and not expensive to put together but in the end, only if it makes you happy.

 

[Junkhunter]

OK, it's s/n 2178808. I left it behind because of a blemish on the DS dial, a bent staff pivot or bad balance jewel that was keeping the balance from moving freely, and the fact that it just did not have enough "flash" for me - I have 15J Gettys that are finished better.

As I said, it's $175 after the booth discount. No camera on my phone, so no pics. If anyone needs it pm me.

 

[49stude63]

John most of the time these types of watches are at the right price since most people shun them like the plague. And I try to pick them up if the price is right but even low production RR grade watches get passed over many times because they are not the RR grade watches that everyone is chasing after. I always judge what I buy based on if I have to turn it around but in some cases I buy because of the oddity or rarely seen.