Illinois 21J Sangamo?

[W. Pat]

First off I am looking to purchase a Sangamo 21J Open Face and am looking for some information. Which Sangamo 21J is the easiest to find in like new condition and which is considered the better movement of those available? I am assuming they made the 21J on both the Getty and the 3 Fingered Bridge movement. Is this correct? Any links to pictured Sangamo's in factory cases appreciated!

 

[W. Pat]

First off I am looking to purchase a Sangamo 21J Open Face and am looking for some information. Which Sangamo 21J is the easiest to find in like new condition and which is considered the better movement of those available? I am assuming they made the 21J on both the Getty and the 3 Fingered Bridge movement. Is this correct? Any links to pictured Sangamo's in factory cases appreciated!

 

[Kent]

W. Pat:

The 21-jewel Sangamo was only made it the two "Getty" models. The production quantities, based upon information in "American Pocket Watches Vol. 2, Illinois Watch Co., Encyclopedia and Price Guide," William Meggers, Jr. & Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press, Kansas City, MO, 1985 (still in print, you really ought to consider getting a copy of this book - see Heart of America Press) include a few hundred specially marked watches, "Extra" or "Special."

Model 4 hunting-case, around 1,500 (rough estimate)

Model 5 open-face, around 11,000 (rough estimate)

That reference book states that some of the 23-jewel watches were sold in factory cases, making no mention of 21-jewel Sangamo grade watches being factory cased. Russ Snyder's data base may show more accurate information.

 

[terry hall]

Here is a previous post on the Factory Cased Sangamo watches....

old ref::http://nawcc-mb.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=2386079361&f=4316035461&m=3716066461&r=4716066461#4716066461[/url]

And here are some links to a friend's example...

Long Pendant Sangamo Case curvette marking

Case marking

Rear Case View

Movement Imagehttp://web.InfoAve.Net/~ehall/longpendantsangamomovement.JPG

These cases are discussed on page 48/49 of the book Kent is mentioning above.

 

[Fred Hansen]

W. Pat -

Your easiest and most affordable Sangamo to find will be the 21 jewel open-face with "bright-spotted" damaskeen pattern. These are a very nice watch, and have long been one of my favorites.

One thing I'd like to add though is that there are a few dial styles that are generally accepted as "correct" to these watches, and having the correct dial is an important part of this watch. Sangamos are not difficult to find with this correct dial, but there are quite a few out there with incorrect dials. Since original appropriate dials in nice condition can be hard to find and pretty pricey when found, you will do well to make the correct dial an important part of the consideration of this watch.

Fred

p.s. When I have a little more time, I'll come back to this post and add pics of a few Sangamo-correct dials.

 

[terry hall]

This one is on a Late Sangamo would not be "correct" on the earlier movements....

 

[W. Pat]

Thanks to all for the replies!

Terry the Sangamo 23J you linked me too I have seen the identical movement in very nice shape currently on eBay. The case did not appear to me to be original from the pictures I had of cases for Illinois Railroad watches. The monty. dial you pictured I also had on a 17J Illinois Bunn I sold recently. I am not a "watch repairman" so I only have general watch knowledge. Is the dial feet position of the Getty movement the same as they are on a Bunn Special?

I decided after looking at the 23J prices I might be better off looking for a 21J that was produced in the highest quantity thus hopefully find one in nice shape. Thanks for all the help!

 

[terry hall]

the "getty" dials and the Bunn dials are not interchangable...

Getty= 16 size model 4 & 5 have a different dial foot pattern than the 16 size Model 9 and higher Bunn Special....

They will physically fit, but you have to molest a dial foot to do so.. NOT RECOMMENDED

The one feature of the getty is that the hunter (model 4) and the open face (model 5) share the same dial foot pattern. The model 8 (hunter) is different than the model 9 (open face).

you also have to keep in mind that with the exception of the case i mentioned above, these watches were sold to the jeweler as a movement only, and the customer made the decision of the case selection... as long as the time frame of the case (style, etc) is correct.... some of the watches you have seen "could" have the 'correct' or 'original' case. This should be part of the evaluation of the purchase of the watch.

 

[terry hall]

Also, try this link...

http://nawcc-ihc-mb.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=3206049661&f=5656047761&m=9016045885

 

[W. Pat]

Terry

That was an outstanding link! Simply beautiful watches! I saw my first Illinois Railroad watch around age 10; a Bunn Special and have been hooked on their beauty and workmanship ever since! Really appreciate your guys time and information!