If you could only have one RR watch...

[Old rookie]

Which one would you choose?

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

Old, big, winds with a key.

Raymond or Railway, whichever.

 

[Old rookie]

Just curious Rick but what does the "sponsor" indicate on your avatar?

 

[SpringDriven]

992B, because it is currently sustainable and as accurate (with proper service) as most modern mechanical watches.

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

It has to do with with forums donations.

They had a thing a little while back about doing automatic monthly donations so I tried it with a smaller amount and then try to remember to throw a few extra donations in there every so often. Every little bit helps. Guess my bunch of little bits add up to enough over a years time.

 

[Jim Haney]

When a thread like this is started, it really is for people to READ their own posts.........

Obviously, all opinions are opinions and none are accurate and are biased to their opinion... so what is the point?

 

[Old rookie]

Jim, is there something wrong with soliciting opinions? If you have a well researched answer for that I'll ask the moderator to delete this thread.

 

[Jim Haney]

No, It's all fine if that is what you want to read. I guess that I read have so many opinion threads on the best watch for this or that, that is has just worn thin. Or it could be my grouchy old ways
If you go back over the older threads you can read about this going back 20 years,So please feel free to post away, we all have the option to not bother with it.

 

[Old rookie]

Fine Jim, I was beginning to think we were becoming pains in each others tushies.

 

[Jerry Treiman]

One could certainly make their choice in several ways. Do you want a watch that represents the most accurate and serviceable timepiece available to the railroad employee? ... basically the best “tool” for the job. Or do you want the rarest model? ... or the most historic or most innovative? Or aesthetics might be your motivation. I have a few railroad watches, but I don’t collect them, so I don’t really have a choice. (I am pretty happy, though, with my lever-set Riverside Maximus - it suits the aesthetics category).

 

[MrRoundel]

I'd surmise that one's preferred RR grade watch would come down to an overall brand preference. Illinois collectors, whether or not tilted towards RR watches, would probably say, Bunn Special or Sangamo Special. Hamilton folks might decide on a 950B, 992B, 999, or other hi-grade Hamilton. Elgin people, Veritas, Father Time,
G.M. Wheeler...Hampden, Special Railway, etc. South Bend, Polaris or The Studebaker. Waltham, as Mr. Waltham (J.T.)exemplifies, Riverside-Maximus or American Watch Company grade. And there are plenty of other brands that made great running and fine looking RR watches. And Ball marketed many fine examples by Waltham, Hamilton, Illinois, Howard, Elgin, and perhaps Hampden(?). The Ball watches offer many great high-visibility bold Arabic numerals. These make them look "super-rail-roady" to me.

So I guess it comes down to pick your positions (p-o-i-s-o-n hidden in there ). Lots of fine timepieces out to enjoy and impress your friends.

Cheers.

 

[StanJS]

I'd choose a honkin' big 18s, high jewel, rare one that was given to me by my grandfather.

 

[Old rookie]

StanJS, that is one very cool watch!

 

[musicguy]

Don't kick me but I kind of agree with Jim a little here in the concept of
whatever watch someone posts it is to show off their own watch and feel good about it.
But, there really isn't anything wrong with that if you realize it's all subjective.

Maybe look at it a different way.....................

I do not have one particular watch that I would show or recommend because I like watches
from many different time periods and styles and companies. Some people who
love Standard watches(ones that would have been approved at their time for RR use)
gravitate toward marginal minute dials. These Montgomery style dials are
great to look at and fun to collect. There are many different variations of them.
My son thinks they look too busy and likes a cleaner RR dial look. It's good that
everyone has their own opinion and can collect what they want.

If you are going to put your watches in a display and never really open them then
maybe the dial(and case) are most important to you. Everyone collects differently.

You need to buy what you like because that's what's most important in collecting..

Rob

 

[Old rookie]

Don't kick me but I kind of agree with Jim a little here in the concept of
whatever watch someone posts it is to show off their own watch and feel good about it.
But, there really isn't anything wrong with that if you realize it's all subjective.

Maybe look at it a different way.....................

I do not have one particular watch that I would show or recommend because I like watches
from many different time periods and styles and companies. Some people who
love Standard watches(ones that would have been approved at their time for RR use)
gravitate toward marginal minute dials. These Montgomery style dials are
great to look at and fun to collect. There are many different variations of them.
My son thinks they look too busy and likes a cleaner RR dial look. It's good that
everyone has their own opinion and can collect what they want.

If you are going to put your watches in a display and never really open them then
maybe the dial is most important to you. Everyone collects differently.

You need to buy what you like because that's what's most important in collecting..

View attachment 645789

View attachment 645788

View attachment 645791

View attachment 645792

View attachment 645790





Rob

Rob, that is exactly what I do.

 

[luvsthetick]

Old rookie, it is kind of like a potato chip.............one will never do!

 

[Lee Passarella]

Anybody want to give a shout-out to Blind Man's or Boxcar dials?

 

[Lee Passarella]

More seriously, I imagine somebody could put in a good word for the Seth Thomas Maiden Lane, which is on my wish list.

 

[musicguy]

which is on my wish list.

My problem is that evrytime someone posts a nice watch my wish list keeps getting longer.


Rob

 

[GaryWoodward]

My problem is that evrytime someone posts a nice watch my wish list keeps getting longer

That's for sure! Being another newbie to this site I'm continually amazed at the enormous variety of these incredible machines. I'm also amazed at the depth of knowledge represented by the good folks here. Add to that the camaraderie, willingness to share said knowledge and patience with the likes of us, makes for a most pleasant and stimulating place to hang out!
Musicguy: Those are some very cool Montys! I love 'em, too! Is the Elgin marked "Elinvar Balance" hiding behind the second hand?" That's got to be a rare mark.

 

[musicguy]

Is the Elgin marked "Elinvar Balance" hiding behind the second hand?

That one says Invar Balance on the dial. As you said above these watches are so much fun
to look at and learn about(and collect). We wouldn't be anything without all the great members we have
contributing to the forum. The new members are just as important as the older ones
asking great questions and helping us all learn as well.

Rob

 

[GaryWoodward]

That one says Invar Balance on the dial. As you said above these watches are so much fun
to look at and learn about(and collect). We wouldn't be anything without all the great members we have
contributing to the forum. The new members are just as important as the older ones
asking great questions and helping us all learn as well.


View attachment 646057

So cool! I like when the Montgomerys have either the '6' or '18' or both in the seconds dial.
Maybe Elgin should have called it "Elginvar."

 

[Clint Geller]

While I own quite a few "railroad grade" watches, I don't really own any "railroad watches." However, if I could choose one as a present, it would either be a hunting case Ball Howard in a gold case with a signed Moorhouse Ball Howard dial (they do exist), or a silver Appleton, Tracy grade Waltham Model 1857 with a Penna. Railroad engine number on the case.

 

[Downing]

I have two "RR" watches that have a lot more in common than they do differences.

So they're pretty much the same watch. Same maker (Hamilton), same time period, same overall condition.

Here's my 1942 Hamilton 992B:

And my 1948 Ball 999B:

I should probably sell one .

 

[Dbailey]

I don't carry, so I'd have to pick one from my collection...a tough call. I'd probably waver between my 950B 2B prefix serial number (100 made) and my model 9 23J crosshatch true bridge Sangamo Special with diamond endstone......decisions, decisions....

 

[George Frick]

I would have to say my Rockford 900

 

[Old rookie]

While I own quite a few "railroad grade" watches, I don't really own any "railroad watches." However, if I could choose one as a present, it would either be a hunting case Ball Howard in a gold case with a signed Moorhouse Ball Howard dial (they do exist), or a silver Appleton, Tracy grade Waltham Model 1857 with a Penna. Railroad engine number on the case.

Interesting Clint. Is there a common term used within the collecting community to refer to these watches? Railroad Grade? Standard? Does the Appleton Tracy grade Waltham you refer to have the engine number in the red Pennsy keystone or just the outline of a keystone?

 

[Clint Geller]

Interesting Clint. Is there a common term used within the collecting community to refer to these watches? Railroad Grade? Standard? Does the Appleton Tracy grade Waltham you refer to have the engine number in the red Pennsy keystone or just the outline of a keystone?

O-R, you may have asked the wrong person, but I think that a watch that meets railroad timekeeping standards and with the requisite technical features for the period of its manufacture (number of jewels, micrometer regulator, adjustments, etc.) is widely referred to as "railroad grade," whether or not it was likely to have been used on a railroad. At least, that is how I use the term. As for your other question, I am blurry on the details. However, I believe such a watch was exhibited at the NAWCC National Convention in Chattanooga in 2015. Tom McIntyre, who gave a presentation there, may have a slide showing one.

 

[Maximus Man]

Anybody want to give a shout-out to Blind Man's or Boxcar dials?

I might be a little off, but how did a blind man's watch end up in a topic on RR watches? I doubt that is a train I would feel safe on.

 

[musicguy]

Blind Man's dial (not to be cryptic but Arabic numerals easier to see when your older eyes don't work as well)

Rob

 

[Old rookie]

Blind Man's dial (not to be cryptic but Arabic numerals easier to see when your older eyes don't work as well)

View attachment 646293



Rob

...or under poor lighting conditions in the cab or caboose.

 

[Fred Hansen]

As for your other question, I am blurry on the details. However, I believe such a watch was exhibited at the NAWCC National Convention in Chattanooga in 2015. Tom McIntyre, who gave a presentation there, may have a slide showing one.

The early 57 model railroad watch on display in Chattanooga was marked to its case for the Camden & Amboy Railroad and dates to 1863.

The Penna Railroad Waltham dates to about 1867, so four years later, and has a similar type case (lightweight silver with cuvette having railroad marking and rear having an unadorned (engine number?) numeral marking) but also has the great feature of a Penna Railroad marked dial. The best example I know of is pictured in one of Roy Ehrhardt’s “Price Indicators” (either 1978, 79, or 80 issue but I don’t have my copy handy to check), then was a part of the Rockford Time Museum collection and ultimately sold at Sotheby’s in 2004 with the dispersal of this collection and was lotted as part of a small group lot of Waltham's.

 

[Clint Geller]

As for your other question, I am blurry on the details. However, I believe such a watch was exhibited at the NAWCC National Convention in Chattanooga in 2015. Tom McIntyre, who gave a presentation there, may have a slide showing one.

The early 57 model railroad watch on display in Chattanooga was marked to its case for the Camden & Amboy Railroad and dates to 1863.

The Penna Railroad Waltham dates to about 1867, so four years later, and has a similar type case (lightweight silver with cuvette having railroad marking and rear having an unadorned (engine number?) numeral marking) but also has the great feature of a Penna Railroad marked dial. The best example I know of is pictured in one of Roy Ehrhardt’s “Price Indicators” (either 1978, 79, or 80 issue but I don’t have my copy handy to check), then was a part of the Rockford Time Museum collection and ultimately sold at Sotheby’s in 2004 with the dispersal of this collection and was lotted as part of a small group lot of Waltham's.

Thanks for the clarification, Fred. I would love to have the Camden & Amboy example too.

 

[Leigh Callaway]

A Hamilton 942, one of seven sold Sep 27, 1899 to Lindenberg Strauss Cincinnati.
Serial number is 38 higher than the very first of 5,913.





My grandfather left me a solid gold LeCoultre quarter repeater. I sold that to begin a collection of working watches. Like this one.

 

[musicguy]

Great choice Leigh, I like the 942's as well. Top of the line
18s Hamilton in it's day(one of my favorites too).



Rob

 

[KipW]

I realize this thread (like most others like it) has 'petered out'. All the same, I wonder if it would be useful to lay out a few parameters and offer points values for each, in order to make these kinds of exercises more useful to those who are too new to the hobby to have strong emotional preferences or prejudices. Of course, this system would tend to tilt one way or another when applied to specific examples, but hopefully, balance out overall.

For instance: one to ten points "awarded' in each category, then either totaled or averaged out for a final 'score'.

Just to see how it might apply, use my Hamilton 950B to "test":

MOVEMENT

Design - 9

Engineering - 9

Decoration - 7

Finish - 9

Reliability - 8

Function (accuracy) - 9

Durability - 9

Parts supply - 8

Serviceability - 9

Value for money - 5

Appeal - 9

--------------

Sub-total = 91

((or)

Sub-average = 8.273


DIAL

Design- 8

Engineering - 6 (melamine)

Decoration - 7

Finish - 7

Reliability - 4 (melamine)

Function - 6 (melamine)

Durability - 4 (melamine)

Parts supply - 8

Serviceability - 5

Value for money - 5

Appeal -5

-----------------

Subtotal = 65

(or)

Subaverage = 5.91


CASE

Design - 7

Engineering - 7

Decoration - 6

Finish - 7

Reliability - 7

Function - 7

Durability - 6

Parts supply - 6

Serviceability - 6

Value for money - 6

Appeal - 6

----------------

Subtotal = 71

(or)

Subaverage = 6.45

=================

OVERALL

Total = 227 / (A)

(or)

Average = 6.878


Summary: seems the 950B (melamine) dial is so-so, the case is better than average, and the movement is hard to beat. If your taste runs heavily towards movements (like mine) the 950B 'tilts' in my favor and makes me happy. If one is more engaged by fancy cases, or dials...others will be "better"... for them.


Now, do the same thing with others in your collection - (say) a 23-jewel 60-hour Illinois Bunn Special, Waltham 1623, Elgin 540, or whatever, from whatever era? How does it compare under the same "guidelines"? Then post it on the forum, let others score your watch under the same guidelines, and see how the various scores compare with yours. Lotta work - but for the Cause. Discuss!

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

 

[Harold Visser]

O-R, you may have asked the wrong person, but I think that a watch that meets railroad timekeeping standards and with the requisite technical features for the period of its manufacture (number of jewels, micrometer regulator, adjustments, etc.) is widely referred to as "railroad grade," whether or not it was likely to have been used on a railroad. At least, that is how I use the term. As for your other question, I am blurry on the details. However, I believe such a watch was exhibited at the NAWCC National Convention in Chattanooga in 2015. Tom McIntyre, who gave a presentation there, may have a slide showing one.

Here is the pic of the Moorhouse Webb C Ball dial I used to own, I still miss it a lot.........

 

[Clint Geller]

Here is the pic of the Moorhouse Webb C Ball dial I used to own, I still miss it a lot.........
View attachment 664778

I would miss it too, Harold.

 

[senhalls]

I would want the watch Casey Jones was wearing for his last ride . Thanks...........

 

[Lee Passarella]

Scalded to death by the steam. What would that do to his watch, do you think?

 

[Lee Passarella]

Sorry, I conflated my stories. I remembered an old ditty sung to me by my mother at sleepy-bye time. (She also sang "A man is a two-face/A worrisome thing/To leave you to sing/The blues in the night," so her pop song choices were not necessarily age-appropriate.) Anyway, the "Scalded to death by the steam" reference is to the wreck of Old 97 in Danville, VA, in 1903 and has nothing to do with Casey Jones.

 

[Maximus Man]

I have that watch- my dad's watch he carried for three different lines as a conductor/brakeman. 16 size 21 JEWEL Father Time.
So, limited by default of never wanting to sell it, that is the one.

 

[Clint Geller]

Sorry, I conflated my stories. I remembered an old ditty sung to me by my mother at sleepy-bye time. (She also sang "A man is a two-face/A worrisome thing/To leave you to sing/The blues in the night," so her pop song choices were not necessarily age-appropriate.) Anyway, the "Scalded to death by the steam" reference is to the wreck of Old 97 in Danville, VA, in 1903 and has nothing to do with Casey Jones.

I collect traditional American music as well as American pocket watches. Railroad watch collectors in particular may be interested in the following delightful book. I have owned it for years.

Scalded to death by the steam: Authentic stories of railroad disasters and the ballads that were written about them: Lyle, Katie Letcher: 9780912697017: Amazon.com: Books

Here is a link to a thread I started in the Member News & Views Forum with links to a bunch of railroad-related songs available on the Internet.