Identity of 400 day clock

[David Mac Farlane]

Can anyone help? The spring broke in transit, it was very brittle, and is presently running about 5mm short, but running well, albeit very fast. Looking to replace as much as is needed.
This is the second one in my collection - I had never approached the dread 400 day before, now I am enjoying it. No ID on this one other than 'made in Germany'. No movement cover, But I don't know if there are cheap versions of these things - seems like a long way to go to sell a duplicate.
Dave.

 

[KurtinSA]

Welcome to the message board! It would appear that the manufacturer of the movement is Sigfried Haller. The narrow plate with the square cutout at the top seems to be the signature of those clocks. In the repair guide, all of the Haller clocks like that usually have someone else's name on the back of the plate as well. If I had to pick a plate, it would be #1232. Probably a clock from the early 1950s.

Do you a pictures of the dial as well as the clock overall?

Kurt

 

[David Mac Farlane]

Welcome to the message board! It would appear that the manufacturer of the movement is Sigfried Haller. The narrow plate with the square cutout at the top seems to be the signature of those clocks. In the repair guide, all of the Haller clocks like that usually have someone else's name on the back of the plate as well. If I had to pick a plate, it would be #1232. Probably a clock from the early 1950s.

Do you a pictures of the dial as well as the clock overall?

Kurt

Thank you Kurt - not terribly sure if roughbarked was joking (It has got flowers as you can see.) - Had some difficulty with uploading pictures this morning, didn't expect to have to do them one at a time - no doubt someone will tell me how - I let it be managed by the system, and they appear gigantic .
Anyway, here is the front, which I would have put on had it been easier.
You information is invaluable - I can order a new spring on that.

 

[David Mac Farlane]

A tale to tell - this my other model - which I placed on the HiFi unit for stability (it was on the piano before), and when I brought in the flower faced clock, I placed it just above it, on the record deck cabinet. The smaller model stopped. It had been going in that position for at least two weeks.
I moved flower face through to the bookshelf in the guest bedroom (where I broke the spring), and the smaller clock started going again - and keeps perfect time, one week on........ The little one sat in between the record deck and amp - the big one sat where the owl is.

 

[David Mac Farlane]

Brilliant, astute and observant - the room has just recently been decorated with butterfly wallpaper ( mainly for it's most frequent guest, my granddaughter), so you were nearly right!! As you can see, the clock has flowers on the front.
Dave.

 

[David Mac Farlane]

Thank you, my new found friend - the nice bit is it was 35 GB pounds, and the antiquary took off 3 quid for cash!!!! (=£32.00)
I am looking forward to making it a good timekeeper - despite the spooky story - I should have presented that as a separate post to start more input.
What a helpful forum - I shall stay here for a while.

 

[Harry Hopkins]

Welcome! Nice looking clocks! I don't see many painted clocks with the paint in as good of condition as yours. I am sure you are anxious to get it working again. You didn't do anything wrong when you uploaded your pictures. There is a recent glitch in the system that causes them to post like that. The moderator will probably remove the large images at some point.

When you get your new spring and you need any advice on replacing it you have found the right place.

 

[David Mac Farlane]

Thank all of you. I am normally careful, but if you look, you'll see it has a temporary home on a shelf where - you've guessed! it has to be drawn forward to take the bowl off - so since the bottom stop doesn't anchor the pendulum in any way, it slipped forward, and my reaction to that wasn't as finely honed as normal - t clicked and the pendulum slipped.
I actually re connected it, and it's presently about 2 or 3 hours out per day - but (old chestnut here ) it's exactly right twice a day........
I notice that My supplier has got 4 different springs for Sigfried Haller - I'll need to measure.
Not sure what Kurtin meant by a 1232 plate - assume that would refer to the back supporting plate??
Thanks again.
Dave

 

[MartinM]

Welcome, David.

The Haller is a fine specimen.
It should require a Horolovar .0030' spring.
These are great runners and yours looks old enough that it has a metal anchor and not the plastic version from later years that tended to break and then slip on the arbor.

Your older clock must have just been jealous of the new addition.

 

[KurtinSA]

Finding places for the clocks can be a challenge. I refuse to put a clock anywhere such that I can't lift the dome completely off before reaching in to make adjustments. In some cases, the dome comes up and can be tilted at some point to clear the top of the clock. I built some shelves and find that the distance between shelves must be 18 inches, otherwise it's impossible to get the dome off.

It appears your clock has a mechanism to capture and hold the pendulum. However, you would have to pick the clock up and twist the nut inside the base to raise the center cup. Unfortunately, I think you're missing a piece, a bracket of sorts that would be mounted using the two middle holes in the back plate. With the bracket in place, the screw in the bottom of the base would push the guide cup up to pin the pendulum between the cup and the bracket.

If you're going to get interested in these clocks, you should look for a copy of Terwilliger's 400-Day Clock Repair Guide. It has volumes of info on these clocks. Two important things are scaled drawings of the back plates as well as scaled diagrams of the suspension spring with blocks and fork. Very helpful to build another suspension unit. If your clock is indeed plate 1232, the guide says the spring thickness should be 0.0038". I've found it difficult to actually measure spring thicknesses...I take the package dimensions as accurate.

Kurt

 

[David Mac Farlane]

Thank you both for that info. I shall experiment with the micrometer to find which is the thickness, as long as time and gravity haven't altered this dimension. I take it the horlovar spring is the temperature compensated one.
I did cheapskate, though on books, and got Repair and Restore Your 400-Day Clock Rabushka, Joseph, but I fear it has much less information, although well meaning, so I have ordered a copy of Terwilliger's book since a. I love books, and b. I am serious about my clocks, and these present great challenges. I actually have a lot of antiques, and this is where I have been picking up my 400 day clocks so far.
The mechanism which captures the pendulum has a lever which protrudes from the underside, and works quite well in a lateral direction, since the square on the bottom fits into the bracket, but I don't think it clips in, which is where my downfall came - it slipped out of the bracket on angling the clock in my search for identification. The marvelous thing is that it's still going with the spring having lost 5mm!
Anyway, I shall do the spring measurements and complete my order to my supplier tonight, and I look forward to learning more about these technical wonders.
You guys are great.
Dave.

 

[David Mac Farlane]

Maybe jumped the gun on my conclusion on our bracket thesis - suddenly realized you meant a bracket on the bottom of the plate, which is exactly as you said.
This would indeed, trap the pendulum to make it secure.
If there is a picture of this in the book, I shall fashion a piece of brass as authentically as I can to replace it.
Again, thank you.
Dave.

 

[AndyDWA]

I'd go with this being a variation of plate #1213A which has the same hole layout except for the bottom bracket holes. The are other Haller plates that also closely match but with minor variations, including #1232 as Kurt mentioned above, #1332 and #1485.

As far as I can see all the similar plates call for a .0038" suspension spring so, if it was me, I'd go with that.

Note that when anyone mentions suspension spring thicknesses in this forum, they are referring specifically to genuine Horolovar springs. Other brands of the same thickness will most likely not perform the same as they are usually different widths.

 

[David Mac Farlane]

Thanks Andy - much appreciated.
Dave.