Identifying patek or franken-patek movement

Discussion in 'Wrist Watches' started by Enginerd, Feb 11, 2020.

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  1. Enginerd

    Enginerd Registered User

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    #1 Enginerd, Feb 11, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
    Newbie to watch collection and identification. I inherited this "Patek" wristwatch from a great uncle in Argentina via my Father, which is possibly a so-called Franken-Patek. I took it for evaluation and service and the watch shop was of the opinion that the original Patek movement was from a different watch and was put into a non-Patek case. The number on the movement is 747200. I found an article about a similar movement that was probably used on a pendant watch.

    In-Depth: Restoring and Recasing a Vintage Patek Philippe Movement | SJX Watches


    I'm interested to know two things: 1) what previous watch or vintage was this movement probably from? and 2) If it is a Patek movement, is it worth having appraised? Should I approach a certified Patek dealer since it is sort-of authentic? Or does the choice of appraiser not matter since it appears to be not completely authentic?

    thanks in advance

    0430191115.jpg Patek_zoom.JPG
     
  2. Adam Harris

    Adam Harris Registered User
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    We need FAR better photos
    Movement looks like a pocket watch movement or very early wristwatch (no shock protection) - but case is older style

    No one is interested in franken wristwatches.
     
  3. Enginerd

    Enginerd Registered User

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    ok I will see if I can get better photos this evening thanks.
     
  4. Adam Harris

    Adam Harris Registered User
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    Excellent - dial too
     
  5. Enginerd

    Enginerd Registered User

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    ok unfortunately some combination of light and camera quality is making things not come out much better than before.
    It does now appear that the movement number is 147200 and not 747200.

    I may have to talk to someone with better photography skills.

    Oh also there is no identification number on the case.

    IMG-1458-ok.jpg IMG-1460-ok.jpg IMG-1462-good.jpg
     
  6. Adam Harris

    Adam Harris Registered User
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    The number on the movement is serial number - not caliber, that if you are correct dates to 1910 - LONG before wristwatches existed.
    That points to a pocket watch or early ladies pendant watch movement in a new case and dial.
    Is movement actually marked Patek??
     
  7. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    It certainly looks like the movement is likely a Patek from an earlier era than the case. I don't know Patek serial numbers, but based on a quick study, it seems your movement would be from 1910 or so with that number. I will say though, that other Pateks from that time period seem to have a better finish, especially the balance cock and regulator area. That short and simple regulator sort of throws me. I also don't see what I believe is Patek's usual counter-poised "mustache-lever" pallet-fork. But it could be hidden in the images(?). No matter what, the movement is, as Adam said, quite a bit older than the case.
    What I find intriguing is that most of the "marriage" watches, that come out of eastern Europe have different styles of cases than this one. And they would put a clear back on the watch so you could see the movement. Yours is different, in that it uses an early 20th century movement in a rather sixties/seventies style case. At least that's what I see here. Bear in mind I am no expert. Good luck.
     
  8. 4mula1fan

    4mula1fan Registered User

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    Might help.

    0430191115.jpg
     
  9. Enginerd

    Enginerd Registered User

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    Well as a side note my family tells me that this great uncle was a urologist for Aristotle Onassis and rather famous in Argentina in the earlier half of the 1900s. Which means he would have had the means to have some work commissioned, maybe. Or he could have been fooled by a fake. Not sure but would like to figure out the puzzle.
     
  10. Adam Harris

    Adam Harris Registered User
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    Basically what I said
    A 1910 movement in an older franken case - the dial I highly suspect also franken.

    This is not a "marriage" watch, but a pure franken piece - big difference
     
  11. Enginerd

    Enginerd Registered User

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    ok thank you for the information.
     
  12. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    Since you know it belonged to your relative, and he was a man of means and education, I'd guess that he probably had the watch made. If so, perhaps it was his father's movement that he wanted to make practical use of? In which case it would virtually eliminate most negatives associated with "frankenwatches". At least it would with me. Something like that would be my final guess. Good luck.
     
  13. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    Agree with Adam on most.
    although, of course wrist watches were around before 1910 my thoughts are that Adam is right on most counts here. I think some enterprising person did take an old hunter pocket/pendant Patek watch movement (and it is indeed very consistent with Patek) and recased it.

    Also, you might be interested to learn that Patek, clear up to the 1990's, would take old movements from we collectors and make new cases for them! I had it done several times myself!
    Cheers!
    (I'd love to see the inside back of the case.... any hallmarks or stamps?)
     
  14. Tomxhar

    Tomxhar Registered User

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    Looking closely at the movement number it actually appears to be 747200, dating to 1955-1960.
    An unusual anachronism, as the movement looks to be older.
    Maybe Patek recased a cherished family piece, and gave it a new and updated barrel bridge in the process?
     
  15. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    To me it looks more like 147700, no angle on the first number which makes the movement much older, movement looks late 1800-early 1900 therefore, in my opinion a re-cased movement. Maybe the old case wore out so they made it into a wrist watch, probably a ladies pendant watch at one time?
     
  16. Enginerd

    Enginerd Registered User

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    There are no markings on the case, so I suspect that it was not something that Patek did. It's possible that my great uncle had this done, or else he bought it unknowingly. Not sure I will ever know.

    I received the following communication from the archive services at Patek:


    Dear Sir,


    The movement 147200 was originally fitted for a wristwatch into a specific case number. This original case seems no longer to be combined with this timepiece.


    The movement was produced in 1908 and is a 12’’ size lever escapement.


    This is the only information we are able to provide.


    We hope that the above is of some assistance.






    Kind regards,




    Extracts from the Archives
    ————————————————————————
    PATEK PHILIPPE SA GENEVE
    Chemin du Pont-du-Centenaire 141
    CH - 1228 Plan-les-Ouates
    Case postale 2654, CH-1211 Genève 2
    www.patek.com
     
    MrRoundel and viclip like this.
  17. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    Glad they responded with so much information, helps out immensely in understanding what happened to the watch.
     
  18. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    nice. As stated Wrists have been around along time and yours was and incredibly early one. Congrats.
     

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