Identifying maker: “Gruen” signed 11.25L pin set movement

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by mosesgodfrey, Sep 17, 2019.

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  1. mosesgodfrey

    mosesgodfrey Newbie

    Aug 30, 2017
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    Seeking help to identify the maker of this movement & approximate date of make—simply signed “Gruen”, although I’ve not seen another Gruen quite like it. Winding mechanism looks like some LeCoultre movements I’ve seen, but looking for a more experienced eye.

    11.25L, pin set at 1 o’clock position. Open face configuration. Back of dial hand marked “S5”. Dial side of movement has small stamped 6 digit sn, large stamped 5 digit sn, and two tiny hand marked #s (“10” or “01”) near pin. Seems to be a mark between the bridges near the balance wheel, but cannot clearly ID it or get a clear pic.

    Thanks!

    8069D328-6D2E-453A-8316-6D6B7E7FA8E8.jpeg 1F9B4E71-9619-4351-9DBF-90EE6E80901A.jpeg
     
  2. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Maybe it's just my general unfamiliarity with such watches, but the word "Gruen" gives me the impression that it was added post production.
     
  3. Audemars

    Audemars Registered User
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    Well, this is a very long shot.
    I have a few archive references to Gruen as a Louis Audemars customer .

    There is a 12990, shipped in December 1882 to J Eugene Robert, the LA distributors in USA.
    It was a hunter movement (strike one against it! - although I have had a few instances where they got their records wrong), 18 lignes, anchor escapement, shipped without a case,
    Cost 360 francs, discounted to 270 in lieu of commission (25% - wow!).

    Paul
     
  4. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    C.H. Meylan used substantially the same movement in a few watches. It is the uncommon Type G in my personal classification scheme. See Dropbox - C.H. Meylan Serial Number Database.doc - Simplify your life

    This does not mean the C.H. Meylan made the movement. It is as likely that the movement or its ebauche was made by a third party that supplied both Meylan and Gruen. I see some minor finishing differences. e.g., around the regulator, between the two watches..

    z heptagon Meylan.jpg IMG_5261_edited.JPG IMG_5263.JPG IMG_5265_edited.JPG IMG_6208_edited.JPG
     
  5. mosesgodfrey

    mosesgodfrey Newbie

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    Thanks, Ethan. Meylan is a good bet. Haven’t considered them. I have seen early Gruen signed movements confirmed as theirs before. The mark in the bridges from what I can tell does look like a fancy scroll “M”. Will check mikrolisk to see if there is one similar to what I’m seeing.
     
  6. mosesgodfrey

    mosesgodfrey Newbie

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    Btw, Ethan, I note the 6 digit sn on dial side of your example, matching font & placement as mine, which would I assume be from the ebauche supplier.

    I also see what looks like a tiny mark between bridges on yours, similar placement as mine. Any chance you noted what that was?
     
  7. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    Sorry, I do not have my Meylan at home. The photos I have of it do not show the mark well enough. It will be a while before I go to my bank again, but when I do, I will take a look at the watch.
     
  8. Barney Green

    Barney Green Registered User

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    I am currently looking deeper into the earlier Swiss companies which supplied movements to Gruen.
    This movement has some details which I believe would fit to FHF as ebauche maker. Unfortunately I am currently away from home so that I cannot crosscheck my sources, but will be able to do so during the weekend.
    Barney
     
  9. mosesgodfrey

    mosesgodfrey Newbie

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    Thanks, all.

    Ethan--I finally had a chance to review your document in detail. That is some fine sleuthing! Appreciate the opportunity to gain this knowledge, whether it turns out this is/is not a Meylan. Thanks for sharing it.
     
  10. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    Thanks for the kind words.
     
  11. Jack_W

    Jack_W Registered User
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    #11 Jack_W, Sep 20, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
    I've one of these movements. Have posted about it on the WUS forum.... Gruen cal. 98 and Swiss Patent 51482
    IMG_4019_sm.jpg
    IMG_4020_sm.jpg
    It is certainly a match to the Type G in Ethan's data.
    The detent screw location is a clue:
    IMG_4021_sm.jpg
    One thing is that the underside of the barrel bridge, it is stamped 'Rannaz'. Which was an ebauche maker. Beyond that no clues.

    pictures are not the greatest, I know.... serials are
    133360
    12973 which is next to the cap jewel on the top plate (dial side).
    Marked Gruen on the center finger bridge.
    No other markings.
     
  12. mosesgodfrey

    mosesgodfrey Newbie

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    Thanks, Jack. Yours is very close in numbers to mine: 12,990 & 133,365.

    A good lead on Rannaz as the probable ebauche maker. I plan to have my watchmaker check to see if there’s a matching stamp on my movement.
     
    Jack_W likes this.

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