Identification help needed

PATB1

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Nov 10, 2013
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I have been given a 400 day anniversary clock which needs parts to restore it. I have only recently become fascinated by old watches and clocks and have LOTS to learn! Obviously to track down and order the missing parts I need to know the maker and year of my latest aquisition. Is there anyone who can help?
The back plate measures 72mm x 93mm approx. There are no maker names but a serial number at the bottom of the back plate - 34228. The disc pendulum has markings R A on one side and F S on the other side. Apologies for any wrong terminology. I have attached photos to help. Thanks to anyone who can offer any advice. C1.jpg C2.jpg C3.jpg C4.jpg C5.jpg C6.jpg C7.jpg
 

MartinM

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Jun 24, 2011
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Your clock is a Huber Uhren (Horolovar Plate # 1717)and and appears to be missing only a screw from the suspension bracket and all of the remainder of the suspension components.
That would be:
The saddle and mounting screw and washer
Upper Block
Fork
Lower Block
A Horolovar .0038" suspension spring
 

shutterbug

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With the above list in hand, contact The Horolovar Company for the parts. Also ask them about the complete suspension unit which includes everything except the first item on the list.
 

John Hubby

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I have been given a 400 day anniversary clock which needs parts to restore it. I have only recently become fascinated by old watches and clocks and have LOTS to learn! Obviously to track down and order the missing parts I need to know the maker and year of my latest aquisition. Is there anyone who can help?
The back plate measures 72mm x 93mm approx. There are no maker names but a serial number at the bottom of the back plate - 34228. The disc pendulum has markings R A on one side and F S on the other side. Apologies for any wrong terminology. I have attached photos to help. Thanks to anyone who can offer any advice.
Patb1, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for your inquiry and posting the photos of your clock.

Firstly let's consider who made it and when:

What you have is a 400-Day clock made by the company Huber Uhren of Munich, Germany for the Kienzle Clock Co. of Schwenningen, Germany. The basic design of the movement, which has lantern pinions and a pin pallet escapement, was protected by use patents granted to Huber in 1911 and 1912. They made movements and complete clocks for their own sales and also for others including Kienzle and Badische Uhrenfabrik that were marked with the patents DRGM 484408 and 502714 from 1912 to 1915 (Plate 1041 on page 82 of the Horolovar Repair Guide 10th Ed), which was the validity period of that type of protection. Huber also made these for traders such as Badenia, J. Muller & Co., and SELSI.

From about mid-1915 to 1928 Huber continued to make the clocks but without the DRGM marks. Many of these had no identification, however those made for Kienzle generally were stamped with a serial number such as found on your clock and the Kienzle company name on some of them, both with or without serial numbers. Those made for Badische had a different back plate design as seen in Plate 1015, unfortunately these were not stamped with a serial number so it is difficult to determine when they were made; only that it was after mid-1915.

Your clock having a serial number was made for Kienzle, and can be dated as made about 1925. It has Plate 1627 as illustrated in the Repair Guide. Note that the maker and date of manufacture shown with the plate is "not" correct. Based on the serial number and plate design it was made about 1918 by Huber Uhren. The story why the info there is not correct is too long to repeat here, suffice to say that Charles Terwilliger, the author of the Repair Guide, did not have all the information we have today and made some assumptions based on his knowledge at the time.

All characteristics and components of your clock appear to be original including the dial and pendulum, which is illustrated as No. 38 in the Repair Guide. One question, is there a serial number stamped in the bottom cover of the pendulum disc? Many of these had matching numbers to the movement indicating they started life together.

Now to the missing parts. From what I can see it appears you are missing the complete suspension unit as well as the saddle that normally would be part of the upper suspension bracket. Since that is missing, you will need to find a replacement from another clock, in this instance and based on your just beginning to do repairs of these clocks, I recommend you contact The Horolovar Company and see if they have a complete upper bracket. It is shown as bracket No. 1 in the Repair Guide, Chris Nimon at Horolovar will know what that is. He also will be able to supply a complete suspension unit including the upper and lower blocks, fork, and suspension spring. With those parts you should be able to put your clock in working condition.

From the photos the clock badly needs a complete cleaning, inspection, polishing, and lubrication to be able to function properly. We can discuss what is needed to do that after you have been able to find the needed parts. Please ask about any question you may have, we will be pleased to assist.
 
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PATB1

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Nov 10, 2013
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Amazing, I have been searching online for days for information on my clock. You have a great knowledge and thanks for your speedy reply. There is no serial number in the pendulum disc. I will take on board all your advice and firstly order the parts as noted. I am sure I will have many more questions! Thank you.
 

John Hubby

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Your clock is a Huber Uhren (Horolovar Plate # 1717)and and appears to be missing only a screw from the suspension bracket and all of the remainder of the suspension components.
That would be:
The saddle and mounting screw and washer
Upper Block
Fork
Lower Block
A Horolovar .0038" suspension spring
Martin, I identify this one as Plate 1627, which is physically identical with Plate 1717 but illustrates the serial number stamp.

Regarding the upper bracket, the mounting screw is missing as you point out, but also the saddle which is a friction fit into the bracket. I would recommend that a complete bracket including the saddle and mounting screws be purchased, I believe Horolovar would definitely have the complete assembly.

Also, I just noticed that the anchor pin is bent and will need to be straightened. That is the vertical pin seen through the bracket opening in the photo of the back of the movement, which is mounted in a collet on the anchor arbor. It needs to be completely straight and when the anchor arbor is removed from the movement and placed on a flat level surface, should point vertically upward at 90º to the arbor shaft and not lean to one side or the other.
 

MartinM

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Jun 24, 2011
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As usual, you're right about my errors on the Plate number and the saddle type. I had forgotten how this bracket was designed.
 

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