IBM Master- slave clock timing problems - 1 minute behind

Discussion in 'Electric Horology' started by berntd, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. berntd

    berntd Registered User

    Jun 21, 2009
    1,007
    6
    38
    Sydney
    Country Flag:
    #1 berntd, Mar 14, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2013
    Hello folks

    I have a problem with my setup here on the IBM master to my new IBM slave.
    There is no pulse on the B line when minute 59 goes to minute 0.

    I have analysed this and the reason is as follows:

    Master:
    Switch #3 'advance switch' closes at ~59'25'' (should be 59'10'') and opens 15'' too late as well (0'00'' instead of 59'45'').
    Likewise, #4 'stop switch' closes 15'' late (~0'00'') which results in the minute pulse does to come through just before A and B are connected again by #4. The reult is that the 59' minute pulse does not come through on the B line. Thus the slave remains at 59' and is then 1 minute late.


    How can I fix this?
    The whole design seems flawed as the #3 /#4 contacts run off the minute wheel and the relative timing of this (to the minute switch #1)changes as one sets the clock minute hand.

    #1 minute contact keeps closing at 59'57'' and opening at 0'00" while the #3/#4 contacts' timing varies, depending how te minute hand is set by manual setting.


    How is this ever supposed to work accurately?

    :confused::confused::confused::confused:


    Best regards
    Bernt
     
  2. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    162
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Well, the easiest fix is to move the minute hand slightly ahead (it might mean that it's not exactly at the minute marker at 00 seconds). The minute hand should be on a bushing, so you can adjust it there. In the field, it was always necessary to ensure the minute hand was exactly on the minute marker when the second bit was at 00. If it's not aligned like this, the clock will be as you are experiencing it.
     
  3. berntd

    berntd Registered User

    Jun 21, 2009
    1,007
    6
    38
    Sydney
    Country Flag:
    Hi Harold

    I don't understand this.

    The minute hand can be moved to any position in minute 59 by just adjusting the time ie move the hand. In doing that, the tiing of the #3/#4 contacts changes with it.

    I did adjust my hand on the bush to have the seconds and minutes at 12 exactly (aas you wrote) but as soon as I adjust the time, this relationshiop is off agan and so its the timing of the contacts.

    :confused::confused::confused:

    Best regards
    Bernt
     
  4. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    162
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Well then, it must be the timing of the contacts. Have you timed them??
     
  5. Edwardo

    Edwardo Registered User

    Jun 18, 2006
    133
    1
    18
    Melbourne Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi Bernt,
    Try this following test;
    1/ Stop your clock when you hear the minute impulse
    2/ Set the second hand to the “00” mark
    3/ Set the minute hand to the 10
    You must stand face to face with the clock as a parallax of a mm could make a lot of difference
    4/ Now start the clock and see if you become a minute out in the next hour
    If you do then there is a further adjustment that needs to be made
    Let me know

    BTW I have been clearing out and found a couple of slaves
    if you are interested PM me

    Edd
     
  6. berntd

    berntd Registered User

    Jun 21, 2009
    1,007
    6
    38
    Sydney
    Country Flag:
    Hi Edd

    Yes, that fixes the problem and I can see that the timing of the #3/#4 contacts has shifted to the more correct posiotion in minute 59. That then allows the minute pulse at the end of minute 59 to come through on the B line and everything is good.

    But, how then should I adjust the time so that this tinming remains correct?

    Do I need to stop the clock on second = 0 and then adjust the minute hand to the next correct minute and then start the clock at the right time?

    As I write this, it occurs to me that that is the only way to keep the timing correct.

    NEXT QUESTION:

    How dos one set the slave clocks?
    The have no knobs or wheels to set and I see no provision to afjust them remotely :confused:
    Do I have to fit a switch that allows the 2sec pulses to come through continiouisly?


    Best regards
    Bernt
     
  7. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    162
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Originally there would have been a run/advance switch to move the slaves ahead, using the 2 second contacts. On the fall time change, going back an hour, it's much easier to shut the power off for an hour.

    If you set it correctly the timing will remain correct. The impulse has to be when the second hand is at 00, and the minute hand has to point exactly at the minute marker. It's really not that difficult (at least not after 45 years of working on these).
     
  8. berntd

    berntd Registered User

    Jun 21, 2009
    1,007
    6
    38
    Sydney
    Country Flag:
    Thanks Harold and Edd. I got it now.

    Say, this advance switch: Should this be mounted inside the master clock somewhere or where should it be?
    Was it some sort of antique looking fancy switch?

    I love this clock!!

    Best regards
    Bernt
     
  9. Edwardo

    Edwardo Registered User

    Jun 18, 2006
    133
    1
    18
    Melbourne Australia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The switch was either in the clock or inside a control box hidden away
    Depending on the age, model and type of installation

    In most cases it was a three position chrome toggle switch. (Run, Stop and Advance) See photo below

    As you only have one slave it should be quite easy to adjust it manually


    The trick to adjusting it quickly is to;
    1/ Press down on the steel bar of the solenoid where the return spring is attached

    2/ While keeping it pressed rotate the large ratchet wheel anticlockwise until you go just before the correct time

    3/ Then manually engage the solenoid one pulse at a time until the correct time is achieved
     

    Attached Files:

  10. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    162
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here's a picture of the original circuitry that would have been housed usually separate from the master clock:
     

    Attached Files:

  11. RobSki

    RobSki New Member

    Feb 22, 2016
    1
    0
    1
    Country Flag:
    #11 RobSki, Jun 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
    HI Mr. Bain, I'am in possession of a Simplex 6400-9001 Master Time Control Center. Would I be able to obtain the 'working Manual" to hook up the Simplex 6400? If so, Please advise me as to where. Many Thanks. Rob
    You are the Genius with over 24 years experience.....
     
  12. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    162
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    We used to have one from the Simplex website, but it is no longer there. I don't have one myself. If your clock has the minute impulse option, there should be a transformer and rectifier for running impulse clocks.
     

Share This Page