IBM Master clock

Clockm

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I am new to this Forum. I purchased an IBM Master clock, model 13 2?? Anyway, I need to know how to hook it up to batteries to get it to run. I am not very familiar with these clocks. I believe it can run on 12 or 24 volts. Can you help with this or have any info how to set it up?

Capture1.PNG Capture2.PNG
 

Toughtool

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Welcome to the forum.
It depends on what you want to do. Just run the clock or run clock and some secondaries.

If you do not have the relay cabinet and just have the wires shown in the photo, you can run the clock with the contacts you have, and probably only need 24 volts DC (or 12 volts if it has 12 volt coils), to pulse the wind coils once a minute. Because you have the two seconds contact, your wiring may be setup to provide 80 pulses per hour, to handle power outages. A small wallwart with at least 150 milliamps @ 24 volts or at least 300 milliamps at 12 volts will be enough to operate the coils. Looks like this movement is wired to provide the pulses. Examine the coils for voltage markings on the coils' linen wrapper, probably in white ink. If unknown start with 12 volts, then move to 24 volts if 12 volts fails to operate the coils. Test coils with the clock not wound full. Do you know anything about basic electronics. Photo of the top of the clock and it's wiring and terminals would also be helpfull. Joe

See also: IBM - Archives - Clock Corner - Reference Room - United States

TopOfClock.jpg
 
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Toughtool

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With a closer look, I have noticed that you have the minute impulse contact assembly, the cam follower, and the minute impulse cam missing. So your clock seems to be wired to provide a pulse every other second depending of the wiring of the stop contact. That is too many pulses. The wind coils should only have 80 pulses per hour, not 1800 per hour. Sixty pulses per hour should keep the mainspring wound, but just. In my photo I have the wind coil wires disconnected. They connect to the two terminals below the Stop contact.

I have included a schematic for a pulsing circuit if you want to make your own. Using the Trinket is simpler than using a 555 timer circuit. Here is the software for the device.

Here is the software:
It is the Blink example from the free Arduino IDE program. I only changed the ON time to 600 mS (milliseconds) and the OFF time to 60000 ms . Simple! You can very the time of OFF by milliseconds, and leave the time ON as is, to tune the overall pulse to give a total time of one minute. May take some time to adjust for accuracy. i.e reduce the 600000 ms to 590400 ms to compensate for the ON time of 600ms, then add or subtract to get to exactly one minute.
/*
Blink
Turns ON an LED for 0.6 second, then OFF for 60 seconds, repeatedly.

This example code is in the public domain.

To upload to your Gemma or Trinket:
1) Select the proper board from the Tools->Board Menu
2) Select USBtinyISP from the Tools->Programmer
3) Plug in the Gemma/Trinket, make sure you see the green LED lit
4) For windows, install the USBtiny drivers
5) Press the button on the Gemma/Trinket - verify you see
the red LED pulse. This means it is ready to receive data
6) Click the upload button above within 10 seconds
*/

int led = 1; // blink 'digital' pin 1 - AKA the built in red LED

// the setup routine runs once when you press reset:
void setup() {
// initialize the digital pin as an output.
pinMode(led, OUTPUT);

}

// the loop routine runs over and over again forever:
void loop() {
digitalWrite(led, HIGH);
delay(600);
digitalWrite(led, LOW);
delay(60000);
}

It's simple. Joe

Photo2.jpg ClockWindCircuit.png
 
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Clockm

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Feb 28, 2021
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Welcome to the forum.
It depends on what you want to do. Just run the clock or run clock and some secondaries.

If you do not have the relay cabinet and just have the wires shown in the photo, you can run the clock with the contacts you have, and probably only need 24 volts DC (or 12 volts if it has 12 volt coils), to pulse the wind coils once a minute. Because you have the two seconds contact, your wiring may be setup to provide 80 pulses per hour, to handle power outages. A small wallwart with at least 150 milliamps @ 24 volts or at least 300 milliamps at 12 volts will be enough to operate the coils. Looks like this movement is wired to provide the pulses. Examine the coils for voltage markings on the coils' linen wrapper, probably in white ink. If unknown start with 12 volts, then move to 24 volts if 12 volts fails to operate the coils. Test coils with the clock not wound full. Do you know anything about basic electronics. Photo of the top of the clock and it's wiring and terminals would also be helpfull. Joe

See also: IBM - Archives - Clock Corner - Reference Room - United States

View attachment 641122
I want to run the clock and some secondaries. I am getting the clock this week. I just used pictures from the auction. I think I am over my head with this clock but willing to learn. I know nothing about this type of clock, I have a few secondary clocks that I have used a slave driver to run. I have always been fasinated with Master clocks and secondaries. This will be my retirement project!! I will send you pictures of the top of clock when I receive it. I am determined to get it running some day. Can you please recommend a wall wart for me to purchase. Thank you for all your help and will get back to you.
 

Toughtool

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Aug 12, 2016
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Here is my thinking about batteries. A rechargeable Alkaline 12 volt 23AH battery will cost from $6.00/pk of 5, and will need to be recharged once a week, or be replaced when dead. My figuring may be all wet but here is one calculation; A 23 AH battery should deliver 23 hours at one amp, (divide that by 7 provides, 0.135 amps @ 24 volts (0.273amps needed for 12 volts systems ). So 171 hours or 10260 seconds at 0.135 amps for 1 second/minute should last seven days. If recharging every week is inconvenient, a larger capacity battery will be needed because of the large current draw of the wind coils. Lantern batteries at around $15.00 ea, and up may be needed. A wallwart or AC to DC power adapter is a more economical path. Plug it in and forget about it.

If you are running a large number of secondaries, you need to compute the total load. See the chart in my article with the current requirements for several model types. Two amps was the maximum current per circuit in IBM time systems because of relay contact and rectifier limitations and will most likely provide the necessary power for your system. See the article at: https://mb.nawcc.org/wiki/Developme...-IBM-Minute-Impulse-Secondary-Clock-Movements
There is also a post about using a mix of 12 and 24 volt secondaries on the same forum.

If you want to make the master a true master you need to fine the missing contact parts. The minute impulse contact assembly, the cam follower and the cam. Until then, I sugget you build something like my electronic master and use the A and C to wind your master and the A, B, and C lines to run your three wire secondaries. The commerical pulsers I have seen do not provide the necessary A and B line pulses for self correcting secondaries. They only provide a minute impulse and secondaries are wired as plain impulse secondaries with no correction.

When you get your clock we can see what you need and what can be done with your system.


Two references below on Amazon.com:
$11.00, 24V @ 2Amps: https://www.amazon.com/Aclorol-Universal-Switching-Transformer-100V-240V/dp/B08GCMJH31/ref=sr_1_15
$5.00, 12V @ 2 amps: https://www.amazon.com/NOAUKA-External-Adapter-Headrest-Household/dp/B072N2YHKZ/ref=sr_1_47
 

Clockm

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So if I understand you correctly, I can't use this clock as a Master with those parts you talked about earlier missing? Is that correct? I don't know where to get those parts? Remember I know very little about this clock type. Can I run this clock the way it is without using it as a Master? I would just need to know how to hook up the wall wart? It would be nice if I could just plug the clock in and not worry about using batteries. Your thoughts?
 

Toughtool

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Aug 12, 2016
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The clock will not run as a master clock (controlling secondaries) with the minute impulse contact missing. It will run as a clock if winding pulses are available to wind the mainspring. You may find the missing parts you need, as I have seen a few clock parts from time to time on the web.

I suggest you purchase a 24 volt power adapter because most masters and secondaries have 24 volt coils. It is very easy to convert a 12 volt coil to work on 24 volts. A single resistor is all that is needed for the conversion and this resistor will not modify the secondary or any other unit permanently. You connect the wallwart across the coil wires and in series with a contact or switch that opens and closes the circuit at about one half second per minute to wind the mainspring.

Looking at the photos of your master indicates it is using the "two second" contact set to provide pulses to wind the mainspring. If this is so, it is not good for the movements magnet armature and drive pawl assembly. It just causes excessive wear on the winding parts.

Download from IBM, the service instructions and read about the master clock and determine which winding type you have.
Download this file: https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/pdf/cc_2407MCE1.pdf
Also you may want to download: https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/pdf/cc_2407MBC1.pdf
and : https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/pdf/cc_2407MLN2.pdf

The next step is to wait until you get your clock and set it up, then see what you actually have to work with.

What and how many secondaries do you have? Joe


Just in case:https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mercury/docs/Residential_Hg_Spill_Cleanup.pdf
 
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Toughtool

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Here is a photo of a winder module I am wiring. Only thing missing from the photo is the MOSFET driver transistor (about $1.50). The Trinkit cost (3/3/2021) $6.95 but this is now just about obsolete. See: Adafruit Trinket - Mini Microcontroller - 5V Logic Adafruit.com is recommending a better upgrade, called the Trinkit MO. See: Adafruit Trinket M0 - for use with CircuitPython & Arduino IDE At $8.95. I am going to buy a couple and test them to see if it is easier to program than the Trinkit 5V 8MHz version. Programming was easy once the Arduino IDE was setup. This may be even easier.

Building your own driver is not that difficult. Most people can learn to solder as there are numerous Youtube videos and web instructions on how to solder.
In the photo you will see the input screw terminals, the DC to DC converter, the Trinkit (5V, 8MHZ version) and the output terminals where the wires will connect directly to the two wires of your wind coils. The DC to DC converter board cost about $2.00 each and converts either the 12 volt or 24 volt you will be using to the adjusted 6 volts the Trinkit uses. The schematic remains the same for either Trinket version.

You will connect the wallwart's plus and minus wires to the upper terminals and connect the wind coils wires to the bottom terminals. This unit will be programmed to output a .6 second pulse every minute. It is capable of excepting programming (with an added accurate timing source) to be a full electronic master clock with A and B outputs.

The second photo and schematic is of my ESP8266 NodeMCU master clock that uses the internet's NTP time servers that can wind the master and run the secondaries. Price for the ESP8266 NodeMCU develpoment board is three for $11.00 on Amazon.com https://www.amazon.com/KeeYees-Internet-Development-Wireless-Compatible/dp/B07HF44GBT/ref=sr_1_4

WinderModule.jpg NodeMCU master.jpg Full_Page_ESP8266NodeMCU (2).jpg
 
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Clockm

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Thank you very much Joe for all the info and help. I am not sure I can do everything you discussed about the Trinket and programming. I can attempt it, but have never done anything like this before. If I can't do it, would it be possible for you to get one ready and send it to me and I will pay for it and shipping? I don't want to mess this clock up so it won't run at all. You have been very helpful to a newbie!
 

Toughtool

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Aug 12, 2016
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I hope you have read some of the stuff I listed to start gaining knowledge. I like talking about the ITR and IBM clocks, as you may have noticed. I retired from IBM in 1996, as a service technician and actually serviced the master clock of the customer my master clock came from.

I take it you are retired or soon to be. Now may be a good time to learn a little about basic electronics. A good site to visit is allaboutcircuits.com. Under the education tab, you will find the first lesson: Vol. I - Direct Current (DC) - Electronics Textbook
They have a very good electronic course that is free, and of course there is always someone on their forum that can answer a question.

I looked around for parts and didn't find anything for the ITR or IBM master clock as far as contact parts. At least you have most of the assembly. My 1930 master had all the contacts stripped when it was traded in back around 1950. IBM usually took an axe to traded in clocks to prevent competition. Removing the contacts removed the possibility of the clock being used as a master again, saving it from destruction.
 

Toughtool

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Aug 12, 2016
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Clockm,
I was just thinking about your problem with the missing minute impulse contact parts. There may be a way to use the "two second" contact and count them, then provide a minute impulse from a Trinkit type device, both an A and B signal. That can make your master clock regulate your secondaries. The two second contact will have to be debounced of course and the A and B pulses can be programmed out of the Trinket or ESP8266. This way your master and your secondaries will always be in agreement.
 

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