I would like information regarding this unmarked weight driven time only movement

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by THTanner, Jan 12, 2019.

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  1. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Jul 3, 2016
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    Among the batch of movements from Austria was this weight driven, time only, with the only mark being a 72.

    The winding arbor is at about 2:30. It has a couple of wrong screws and it looks like the mounting posts have been put in at the top of the movement rather than as the bottom posts. There is also a large - 4.7mm - threaded hole in the middle of the back plate as if the movement were to be held in place by some sort of screw through the backboard of the case. There is a second, smaller, unthreaded hole behind the great wheel that may have been used to stabilize the orientation in the case?

    Based on the size of the main wheel I assume it is an 8 day clock but have not yet begun to work with it.

    In the barrel is the remnants of a braided brass cable, but I have no idea if that would be correct.
    Any suggestion regarding how much the weight might be and what it might look like would be great.

    thanks
    tom

    IMG_3421.JPG IMG_3422.JPG IMG_3423.JPG IMG_3424.JPG IMG_3425.JPG
     
  2. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User

    Jan 20, 2017
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    My wag is Noah pomeroy. What are your plans with it?
     
  3. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Not sure of any plans. - - I am just getting through the box of clocks and puzzling over some things I cannot identify.
    Is this an 8 day movement in your opinion?
    And do you have a good use for it? If I were to use it I would put it in some sort of inappropriate case as a designer clock which is probably not a great idea.
    I am a hobbyist - not a professional - and don't want to misuse valuable movements that are needed for a proper restoration.
     
  4. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    I'm not sure always true, but the Pomeroys had lantern pinions.

    This has solid ones.

    Wonder if not just another unmarked late banjo movement?

    RM
     
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  5. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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  6. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    thanks :) excellent information - this is a pinned movement and with a much larger hour wheel.
    I now see what the little holes in the top posts are for.
    What was the weight for your clock?
     
  7. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    With the large hour wheel I am wondering if this is for a 24 hour dial
     
  8. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User

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    I sent you a pm Tom. I think it is a 12 hour movement. That huge wheel is just what I believe to be Noah's eclectic design work.
     
  9. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    the way to know for sure is to disassemble and count teeth... you've got the photos of my pomeroy gears with tooth counts you can reference.

    every movement should be restored and be ready for use, just in case... :cool:
     
  10. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    I put hands on and cranked 6 hours - it is a 12 hour movement - which makes it a lot easier to locate a proper dial

    now to locate a proper pendulum hanger with the "eye" for the center shaft

    do you know how much your weight weighs? with the pulley I assume this needs to be at least 5 pounds? maybe 6?
     
  11. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    sorry... meant to answer that in previous post... currently running like a champ with a 6.5 lb banjo clock weight
     
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  12. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Thanks for the weight check.
    I guess it is likely that this is from a banjo clock? Most of what I have read about it so far indicates that, but there were some other references to cases similar to regulators.
    And the trundles versus the cut pinions is still a question. Perhaps as suggested, this may not be a Noah, but some other maker.
    I will do a count to make sure of the bpm, but if it is the same as yours, it looks like, with a six inch dial, and the 26 inch pendulum, the case should be at least 36 inches tall depending on framing.
     
  13. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    no... i'm using it in a howard-style #4 case but there was apparently a noah pomeroy 8-day regulator:

    pomeroy_regulator.jpg
     
  14. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    I saw you had it in the Howard, but thought that was a mix and not original. I like your howard style case better than the banjo so would probably go with something like that if I decide to make use of the movement. It is open and simple and shows better to me.
    It seems that the noah movements like this were used by quite a few makers? I wonder if some specified cut pinions instead of trundles.
    Thanks for all your help :)
     
  15. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    it's definitely a marriage with the howard case... i found the pomeroy 8-day regulator by googling for info about him.

    maybe when you take yours apart you can take photos of the gears and we can compare with mine... no idea about lantern vs. cut pinions... cut would seem later to me...
     
  16. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User

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    I think pomeroy made movements for anyone willing to toss some money his way. sadly, I have never seen this particular version in a banjo but only in the not so pretty clock bruce posted above. it is a perfect candidate for a banjo cabinet though.

    as I mentioned earlier, I have this really amazing solid mahogany case with a really crappy movement. the cabinet is a good bit larger than the Howard style cabinets that were available at the time. this particular movement is about the only thing I can find that would be anywhere close to what should be there.

    1894-2.JPG
     
  17. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Once I get it apart and do the tooth and leaf counts we can calculate the size the cabinet needs to be. If it matches the other counts the CG of the pendulum will be about 23 - 24 inches below the center shaft. With a decent size dial and some wood work I would guess the case needs to be about 36 inches ?

    The two cords are about 1 3/4 inches apart as they leave the bottom of the movement. I am not sure how the movement is mounted, but there are probably a few options for that.
    Once I finish getting all the specs I will see what the options are.
     
  18. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User

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    in the cabinet bruce posted above, there are two pieces of wood that are screwed to the backer board of the cabinet. they each have a slit and wedge the movement in at both the top and bottom. a little bit of modification and the possibilities are endless though......
     
  19. dickstorer

    dickstorer Registered User

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    After reading all the posts in this thread, I am convinced that there should be a category for those of us that like to make new cases for orphan movements. And TAT, when you get the tooth/pinion count completed, the 72 might be the BPM. If it turns out that 72 is the BPM the pendulum length would be approx. 27.2222222. I have made several new cases for old movements, all are time only weight driven. I am quite proud of them but no place to post, except new acquisitions, and that evidently is not a good place.
     
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  20. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    We do have a Clock Construction forum. Would that not be an appropriate place?

    Clock Construction
     
  21. dickstorer

    dickstorer Registered User

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    Mr. Thornberry, I thought that was for those who made the movements also. I can and have made three 60 BPM movements but I get more pleasure from making the cases. I will try posting some pictures on clock construction if you think it is appropriate.
     
  22. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    I am beginning to think rmarkowitz may be right. I have yet to find a picture of a Pomeroy with pins and cut pinions.

    The counts are center wheel 82 teeth 10 leaves - "4th" wheel 78 teeth 9 leaves - escape 30 teeth 9 leaves

    I calculate 82/9 x 78/9 x 30 x 2 = 4737.777777777 BPH - 78.96 BPM and a 22 1/2 inch pendulum ??

    IMG_3448.JPG
     
  23. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    It perfectly appropriate. (And I only make my wife call me Mr. Thornberry :rolleyes:.)
     
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  24. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    So much fun to slice a finger on a burr left behind when someone reamed out the hole for a larger verge and did not bother to clean up the plate.
    New threads for the bridge screws are about as bad, and since they are larger the bridge screw holes were filed out and look rather like potatoes.
    The mounting hole in the middle of the back plate also has a nasty burr from tapping.
    The verge that came with it spans 8 of the 30 teeth on the EW. I think that will be okay, but am not sure what was there originally.
    I am not sure why the hole to slip it in place had to be reamed out; there is plenty of leeway.
    The attachment spot for the cable has been abandoned on the drum and two new holes drilled to handle that. They are drilled in a convenient place and will work okay, but the tell tale burr is there as well and will quickly wear into the cable.
    All of this reaming and tapping is a lot newer than the rest of the plate features. The verge hole is so clean and shiny that it is probably no more than two years ago.

    If this was once a rare or valuable movement it is no longer pristine. After some cleanup work I will see how well it wants to run. The pallets on the verge had scratches running perpendicular to how the EW teeth would move on the face, as if they had never been even mildly polished after manufacture. I don't think it ran much, if at all, after the verge was put in place since the EW teeth look fine.

    All in all a bit disappointed, but for as little as it cost I will see what I can do with it.

    IMG_3452a.JPG IMG_3453.JPG IMG_3456a.JPG IMG_3457.JPG IMG_3459.JPG
     
  25. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    I have recently seen reference to this same movement as an "E Howard" style movement - all the same features of pins, cut pinions, large hour wheel, back plate mounting point and a serial of 88 stamped in the same places as the 72 on mine - -

    EHowardTimeOnly.JPG
     
  26. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    I would call it that, too.

    I still don't think it's a Pomeroy.

    RM
     
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